clays

[James Rorar]

Met some friends for some informal clay bird shooting. Brought my treehawk/newenglander and decided to give it a try. 1st shot with full choke was a miss. Next ten shots with imp cyl smoked each bird. What a blast. Anyone else ever try clays with their bp shotgun?
James

 

[Rebel]

I shot a few the other day with my flintlock .20 ga..

 

[john12865]

I shoot them as a hundred yard target with a .54 rifle. I just hang them off a nail on the back stop. I never gave it any thought about using a shot gun. :hmm:

 

[James Rorar]

You should. You will have a blast.
James

 

[Dave K]

Yes, I sure do and there is a good chance I will this weekend. I have shot quite a few rounds of trap at the local club. It sure is a ball. Can't think of a better way in the summer to spend an afternoon. I have a pair of SxS flinters (16ga. and a 18ga.) that need to be patterned and shot over a trap house.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Jim,
I have been shooting flintlock smoothbore, stoked with birdshot, at fying claybirds and clayrabbits since 1989. It never ceases to be a blast. Have won many times. Have been bested often as well. Very satisfying to smoke a flying clay with flintlock BP. At my favorite shoot of the summer, the clays shoot always brings almost all the campers out to watch. It is one of the few shoot events where razzing is manditory. Har! We have too much fun, and the more watching the better.
volatpluvia

 

[mike alexandre]

We regularly shoot ml shotgun at clays, both original and repro. Its interesting just how important it is to get the powder/shot ratio correct to get outstanding results.

 

[Tumblernotch]

We have an informal trap shoot from time to time at our club and in fact will hold one at our July shoot. I don't have a BP shotgun and so have to use my Charleville musket. If I allow for a slow lock and a very long barrel, I can bust quite a few birds. (Crossers can be real tough). And of course I can't shoot any doubles, so that rules out using it in Sporting Clays. One of our members has a nice custom made O/U that he uses at Friendship and he is as deadly as any who use a smokeless shotgun. I'm pretty good at Sporting Clays with a smokeless O/U and that has helped me, but shooting clays with a long barreled musket is a different animal altogether!

 

[paulvallandigham]

On crossing targets you need to be about 10 feet in front of the clay target to hit it. The same with shooting doves. Most everyone misses by shooting behind the target. Very few clays or doves are missed by shooting in front of them.

It takes every bit of will power you have to put that much daylight in front of a target. Been there, done that. The first time I did it, I just decided that all I had been doing was punching holes in the air behind the bird, so what would be the difference if this time I puched a hole in the air in FRONT of it. That is what gave me the courage to try it. I was absolute dumbfounded when the clay target broke into little pieces.

 

[Leonredbeard]

Paul,
In my experience, 10 feet seems a bit much for aimin in front of. Maybe the targets I shoot at are not going as fast. I have found that once it is loaded and primed a flinter smoothbore is just anoter shotgun. Witness: modern target loads tend to reproduce the velocities of muzzleloader smoothbores with shot. In fact, of all the modern guns, shotguns retain the most of the blackpowder era.
Just MHO
volatpluvia

 

[Tumblernotch]

I have to agree with that. Ten feet is way farther than necessary unless the bird is very fast and very far away. Even with a musket, 2 feet lead is sufficient at 30-40 yards. Not much different from most smokeless target loads. The trick to hitting consistently with any shotgun is follow-through. Too many people check their swing as soon as they pull the trigger. You have to keep following that line.

When I first started using my musket on clays, I was using a fairly heavy load and that actually lowered my velocity and I did have to maintain a lead of about 4 feet and a lower percentage of hits. I figured that since my Charleville was a 16 gauge, I should load it like one. I use 75 grs. of ffg behind 1 oz. of 7 1/2 or 8 shot. I have also experimented with a 7/8 oz. load with good results. I haven't been able to chrono any shots, but I would say that there's not a heck of a lot of difference between these loads and a light target AA load. Of course I don't use plastic shot cups, though I have some that I want to play with.

The biggest problem I have in using this musket is the barrel length (44 1/2" compared to 28 on my O/U) and the very slow lock time on the musket. This is where follow-through is of the utmost importance. Also, the stock configuration ain't exactly designed to get your eye on the front sight and the target the quickest. But what Paul said is definitely very important. You're certainly not going to hit the target if you shoot behind it! Stay in front using what lead is necessary and keep the target on top of the sight on outgoing and incoming targets.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Guys I thought 10 feet was too much too, but one day I was hunting dove with a friend. He missed every dove he shot at, while I was killing them out to 30 yards and a little further shooting an open cylinder double barrel shotgun. I was ten feet in front before I slapped the hammers. Now, I give it to you that I probably stop my swing, so that 10 feet narrows quite quickly by the time i slap the trigger, the hammer falls, the load is ignited, leaves the barrel and travels out to where the birds are. I am not a good sustained lead shooter. If you are, then of course, you will lead the target less. I tend to swing through the target, using my barrel's front sight as a paint brush, and put enough lead in front of the bird so that when I slap the hammer, the shot is there when the bird gets there. I still have to work at holding under the birds, as I tend to shoot over the top of them and miss when I do miss. And, we all know that the dove can turn on a dime, and give you back change. They are among the fastest and hardest birds to take successfully of all the game species.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I see what you're saying Paul. I don't have any experience shooting doves, although I have watched the ones near my house. And I can see that they are probably the hardest game bird to hit. I have hunted grouse in years past and they have the same nasty habit of changing direction and elevation in a heartbeat, so I know what you are dealing with. These are two birds that you probably could shoot behind and hit in some cases. They're just as likely to turn around and run into a pattern thrown behind them! So in cases like that and in shooting very long range and fast crossing targets I could see a very long lead. And like you said, if you slow your swing as you shoot, that distance could lessen without you noticing.

Most of my shotgunning is done in Sporting Clays which if set up right comes closest to hunting conditions. However, except for a few oddball trap set-ups and special clay birds, the trajectories stay the same although windy conditions can change them drastically. Although most shots are taken at birds thrown from traps set up so that the targets are angling away or toward the shooter, some are thrown at 90 degrees or near that and if thrown at high speed at 40 yds.+, a good bit of lead can be required. I have improved on my lead and follow-through, but I still tend to check my swing sometimes. And I tend at times to shoot over, not allowing for gravity pulling the target down.

There are times when checking your swing somewhat is necessary, at least for me it is. If you are shooting true pairs, especially fast ones, you have to get on that second bird fast and establish a lead. Which bird to shoot first depends on speed, rate of target drop and direction. Following pairs can be as bad sometimes. Report pairs give you a little more time but not much.

What would be interesting is to have a gun or head mounted video camera to record just how much lead we need and just where all those pellets are going. I believe that might help some shooters and I'm sure a lot of us would be surprised at what really goes on out there.

At least in shooting clays, one little piece knocked off makes for a dead bird. Unfortunately, that's not always the case when shooting game birds. I wish I was better but I don't get much opportunity anymore. Have a good'un! :grin:

 

[Dave K]

That is a great idea with a camera! I do hunt allot of dove,but my practice is on the trap range where I stand about 20yds in front of the trap house. I really don't know how much I lead them, but practice just seems to work and soon like shooting a basketball, you get to where you connect on quite a few. Of course the fun is in the practice as well as the hunting. As far as anyone concerned about the safety issue of my practice routine, there is NO ONE near the field of fire and other dove hunters take advantage to this trap field as well.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I think using a camera and studying the video might help shooters. I have held a camera over my father-in-law's shoulder as he fired a rifle musket and he did it for me and it is amazing how much the barrel wobbles! Even on a bench rest it is noticeable in slow motion. So a camera could help a feller maybe break a few bad habits as well as show him where his shot is going when shooting clays.

I haven't bird hunted in years. The quail and grouse have pretty much flown the coop around here, though we do have some doves who like to empty the bird feeders. I used to hunt pheasant in southern Pennsylvania years ago. Most all of my clay shooting is done at the Chambersburg Rod and Gun Club in PA and I only get to shoot there once or twice a year anymore. I really like that sport and have gotten pretty decent at it considering the lack of opportunity. I want someday to shoot the course with a muzzleloader but it would have to be on a very slack day. They handle a lot of shooters each Sunday. Some of the stations are quite tough and they are changed every few weeks.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

To shoot even a 21 yard skeet target at station 4 requires 4 ft. of lead using modern guns shooting modern shells ranging from 1145 to 1300 fps.

Speed, angle and distance create the need for more or less lead.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I shoot a lot of clay and live birds with a flintlock fowler and love it. Except for the the limitations of using a single barreled gun, I think most people with practice will do as well with a frontloader as a breechloader. The larger shot sizes seem to deliver the best results, and using only overshot cards as oppossed to overpowder, cushion, and overshot wads yeild the best patterns.

 

[MercerLake]

:grin: I shoot a double 10 bore for sporting Clays once in awhile and use it for upland birds with very good results. Lead is a very subjective thing depending on the shooter. A camera would be a great thing, probably would surprise us to find just where the barrel was pointed for the shots resulting in hits. I have to agree with most misses being behind and high or low.
I have the best luck with swinging from behind the bird to catch and pass the bird with the muzzle. the "old Butt, Beak, Boom" method works from all angles for me. :wink:
I get a fair amount of grouse to eat, and on a good day get about half of the clays that I fire at, problem being that some are traveling way too fast for me to catch-up with them so I don't waste a shot.

 

[pmwest]

Met some friends for some informal clay bird shooting. Brought my treehawk/newenglander and decided to give it a try. 1st shot with full choke was a miss. Next ten shots with imp cyl smoked each bird. What a blast. Anyone else ever try clays with their bp shotgun?
James

My local club has a 50 bird sporting clays course that consist of 5 stations, all following pair. I use my T/C NE and shoot 5 birds at each station. My daughter and I normally shoot on Sunday afternoons and on most days there is no one else on the course. They set this up as a training course for new shooters, most people are on the 100 bird course so the slower pace of using a muzzleloader is not a problem for other shooters. I normally use 1 oz. loads with IC choke. Great fun, highly recommend to anyone who has not tried it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Most people on sporting clays courses will let the modern gun shooter shoot through, while they reload their guns, and some of those shooters will want you to interrupt them so they can see you shoot a BP shotgun, and see how well you do. Unless there is a tournament going on, I found that shooting black powder on a sporting clays course to be welcomed, certainly by the owners. I even have one owner willing to let my club guys shoot 2 or 4 shots per station and just pay for the clays we shoot, so that we don't have to shoot 100 shots a day, which is a bit much for most ML shooters to accomplish. The sound of a ML shotgun booming off in the woods will attract shooters and on-lookers from all over the course. And I swear they are rooting for you to break that target, just to see it done with Black Powder. :thumbsup: