Conical lube and OP wad advice.

[2ELK]

I too am going to Colorado to hunt Elk this Sept. I am planning on using my GPR .54 with a 1:32 twist. I also have a 1:66 barrel I use for prb. I have been reading several posts concerning the use of Great Plains Bullets and Maxi-balls and I have a few questions.

Does the use of an OP wad help with accuracy?
What type of wad, felt or other material?
How thick a wad? What lube for hunting on the wad?
What lube on the projectile? The Plains bullets have a dry flaking lube on them. I cast the Maxi-balls, so they need lube for hunting.
Should I re-lube the Plains bullets? They are old store bought in the Hornady red box. 460gr HB FP.
What about R.E.A.L. bullets?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[rabjr]

Ox-Yoke makes whats called "bore buttons" that are caliber sized thin felt wads. You can usually buy them at any bp supply store. They come lubed or unlubed and many of us that used them do see a difference, in accuracy under the maxi type bullets, more consistent as they protect the bullets base and provide a good gas seal. They are worth a try. :thumbsup:

Some people use the next caliber up, in other words in a .54 cal some will use a .58 cal wad making a better gas seal.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/cate...Id=2&subId=37&styleId=124&partNum=OX-WAD-54-D

 

[ohio ramrod]

I use a leather over powder wad unlubed for all of my shooting, mini's as well as prb. :hmm:

 

[nkbj]

For .50 and .54 I use 9/16" cards punched out of those thick gray egg cartons. I use the egg cartons because, well because they're here. But also because it punches out nicely, the thickness is convenient, the material is pliable and it is spongy, soaking up melted lube or whatever it gets dunked in. Also using 7/16" for .40 and 1/2" for .45.

Something to try when reloading is seating a waxy lube card wad over the powder and then cleaning the barrel before seating further lube wad(s) and the conical. That way when you are hunting you absolutely know it will go boom instead of the dreaded pop (hours after having loaded the rifle).

Depending on the rifling depth, fit of the conical to bore and volume of powder used, gas cutting can be a problem for accuracy. A short stack of waxy lube soaked wads can greatly reduce or stop the gas cutting. Works just the same way as the packing around a valve stem on a pipeline.

Over sized cards need to be loaded with care to get them straight and forming to the rifling on the way down the barrel. Loading one at a time and letting the jag tip straighten the card on the way down is the best method I have found for the card material I am using.

 

[BrownBear]

I've been using the prelubed Ox Yoke bore buttons for convenience. If I shot more of them, I'd surely locate a source of felt and make my own.

So far I think they help accuracy with any conical other than true minies, which seem to do better with lube packed into their hollow butts rather than the bore buttons. The REALs profit most from them, and in fact I have trouble getting REALs to shoot decently without them.

Needed or not, I smear the outside of the Hornadys with additional lube before loading. That flakey lube doesn't "seem" sufficient, though I read guys on here reporting no leading using them as-is from the box. Never tried it, and I haven't noticed any advantage other than convenience in using one lube over another.

My favorite lube for Maxi's is LEE Liquid Alox- a couple of coats. It doesn't fill the lube grooves, but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

[rawhide]

I my self use 380 grain reals for elk huntining out of my cva hawken. in .54 my load is 90 grains of T7 and I lube with wonder lube. shoots realy well I haven't tryied the buttons yet.

 

[longcruise]

Does the use of an OP wad help with accuracy?

That, in my opinion, is an unanswerd question. Those who use and don't use the op often state their opinions but there is never any statistical evidence to back it up. Both sides of the question have posted single targets with three or five holes in them. Not really statistically significant.

So, I repeat, in my opinion, that it is an unanswered question. I think if someone wanted to shoot 100 shots of each with op and without with say ten benched targets of ten shots each all from the same rifle and under the same conditions one might have an inkling. OTOH, 200 shots of heavy conicals and hunting charges will take a toll on the shooter as well as the shooters pocket book. :haha:

What type of wad, felt or other material?

I don't shoot conicals much any more and when I did it was without op wad. But, just to speculate, maybe some automotive gasket material might work?

 

[nkbj]

Accuracy improvement with card wads depends upon the rifling groove depth, the fit of the conical to the bore and how heavy the powder charge is. The main benefit to over powder wads is to prevent gas cutting. By example, when using a cast bullet in a cartridge it needs to be larger than the groove diameter to seal off and prevent by pass gas flow. With a muzzleloaded cast bullet (conical), the bullet has to be expanded from less than bore diameter to full groove diameter before it gets eaten up. Some combinations of bullet design, metal, powder charge and rifling work great and some don't. When it don't then it's time for the magic egg carton.

 

[2ELK]

The Maxi and REAL bullets have a flat bottom, but the Plains has a small cavity in the base. Does the OP Wad interfere with the expansion of the skirt? Same for Minie's?

Also, I hadn't thought about the OP wad lube getting into the powder after sitting against it all day or week. Would a thin unlubed fiber wad be used first, then the lubed OP wad? Or is it OK to use an unlubed OP wad?

 

[rabjr]

Long as theres lube on the conical, it isn't needed on the wad I would think. But I don't think in a hunting situation in cooler weather you really have to worry about contamination very much using a wonder lube type lube on a wad.

 

[nkbj]

The Maxi and REAL bullets have a flat bottom, but the Plains has a small cavity in the base. Does the OP Wad interfere with the expansion of the skirt? Same for Minie's?

Also, I hadn't thought about the OP wad lube getting into the powder after sitting against it all day or week. Would a thin unlubed fiber wad be used first, then the lubed OP wad? Or is it OK to use an unlubed OP wad?

An over powder wad is going to change how a hollow base expands. How much depends on how tough the wad material is. Also, a wad pushed up into a hollow base is going to be an eccentric weight.
Something I intend to try with a .40 hollow base is to use a waterproof (waxed egg carton) frangible wad for a moisture barrier during field loading. The wad may let the pressure just punch on through. Thinking about trying it with the skirt filled with lube so the space is already filled with a medium to transmit pressure to the inside of the skirt.

Two over powder egg carton wads soaked in the melted lube is kind of a go to first system that has worked for me, for flat bottom conicals if the lube is adequate to keep the fouling soft.
In a follow up shot, loading the powder and two wads, then swab and clean the barrel, load the conical.

 

[Kapow]

I wouldn't mind betting that the effect of the op wad is least significant with the Hornady Great Plains bullet. I haven't done enough testing with them to be sure but they seemed pretty accurate even with near maximum loads and no wad. The others I tried shot better with wads. I don't care what anyone thinks of conicals, they're fun to shoot. :blah:

 

[David W.]

For .50 and .54 I use 9/16" cards punched out of those thick gray egg cartons.

Sounds like a good idea. :thumbsup:

 

[USNAVYABH37]

I just bought my first thing of Conicals and plan using a 1/4" OP wad since I always did with P.B.

I made up some loads from 60 FFG to 90 FFG

They joys of trying new things. :grin:

Curios how much drop there will be with the conicals over P.B should be fun.

 

[Billnpatti]

When I shoot a conical, it is a Maxi Ball and I lube it with my mixture of lard, bees wax and Ballistol (I adjust the mixture to suit the temperature). I also use a leather OP wad that I cut from 5 ounce tooling leather. I lube my wads with straight Ballistol. My experience has shown a more consistant muzzle velocity and consequently more accuracy when using OP wads. I use a custom punch to cut my wads. I bought it from a fellow who goes by the name of "Ohio Ramrod" on this forum. He will make you a custom punch to the exact size that you need for an amazingly reasonable price. For my leather, I use scrap leather from a leather shop/saddle shop/shoe repair shop in the area. He sells me his unusable scraps for a very reasonable price and I can get all the OP wads that I can use in a year punched out in an hour or so while sitting and visiting with one of my buddies. I put the newly punched OP wads into a jar and pour straight Ballistol on them and let them sit for about a week to soak up as much Ballistol as they will. I pour the excess Ballistol back into the bottle and then blot the wads to remove any excess Ballistol and they are ready to go. If there is a possibility that the load may sit for a day or so, I will place a dry cardboard wad on top of the powder before placing my leather wad in. I make them from the cardboard found on the backs of lined yellow notepads that school kids use. One or two of those pieces of cardboard will make all of the dry OP wads that I will need in a lifetime.