conical tent?

[crockett]

William Drummond Stewart in Altowan wrote about taking part of an old tepee and making a mini-tepee or conical tent that was only about 8' high and used 5-6 poles. The front was open to the top whereas a tepee has a door and flaps.
Marcy (Prairie Traveler) was in the west pre-1840 but wrote his book in the late 1850's so time is an issue but he speaks of the "old mountain men" preferring such a tent.
Kurt Douglas was in a movie (I forget the name, Northwest Passage?) IAE it was about mountain men. It was pretty accurate such as cordelling (ropes) a keelboat up the Missouri. The tents were also these 8' high conicals.
So....I'm thinking about making one. It ought to be pretty easy but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever used one and if so- how it worked? And, your feeling about such a tent being pc or okay at a modern rondy, etc.

 

[Black Hand]

I used a parachute to make one when I taught Wilderness Survival last time. Makes a nice shelter...

Unless I'm at Rendezvous where I use my Bell-back Wedge for space and comfort, I use a tarp set up as a lean-to or wedge for simplicity.

 

[Ringel05]

Bell tents have been around for quite a long time, no one really knows how long. The Byzantine army in the reign of Emperor Maurice, 582 ”“ 602 A.D., there are sketches of them in Henry the VIII's camp, the French infantry supposedly used them in 1753.
The Sibley wasn't patented till 1856 and was based off the tipi.

Tentsmiths has a French design you might copy.

Conical tents

 

[Nativearizonan]

How about this, from an 1890s photo:

 

[Black Hand]

Appears to be a rectangular tarp held up/open with 4 poles.

A square or rectangular tarp has many uses & configurations while a semicircle (set up as a cone) does not. However, one can still use a rectangular tarp (or several) to make a cone....

 

[tenngun]

Lots of conical tents that were not true tipis were used all over. Its just a practical set. Sub artic made birch bark conical and great basin made brush conical, Siberian and Laps made the same thing. Round gives you the most sq ft per wall material, and conical gives you the best wind/rain resitance. I agree with Black Hand that that photo looks just like a square tarp thrown on a conical set of poles.

 

[crockett]

I didn't realize the pattern was used in Europe dating that far back. Off hand, if you took a large painter's tarp- it seems it would be about the easiest tent to make and the steep sides would drain rain water well and if you moved the open front about you could heat the thing with a fire in front.

 

[Black Hand]

...painter's tarp...the steep sides would drain rain water well...

Depends on your tarp. Some are only good as shade - when raining, others soak up water and allow it to drip into the shelter. It must be tightly-woven, something less expensive painter's tarps are not...

 

[Nativearizonan]

Appears to be a rectangular tarp held up/open with 4 poles.

A square or rectangular tarp has many uses & configurations while a semicircle (set up as a cone) does not. However, one can still use a rectangular tarp (or several) to make a cone....

It looks to me like a tipi cover, and you can even see the multiple ties along the ground like are used on a tipi to stake it down. Also the smoke stained top has the appearance of a used tipi. I agree it seems to be held open by at least 4, though maybe more, short poles. Tipi covers often rotted at the bottom from contact with the ground and were shortened until they were no longer functional. I think that is what this is, plus they were traveling with a limited number of horses and had no way to carry long poles, so they brought just enough short poles to make it work. To me, that sounds just like what William Drummond Stewart wrote about, as referenced by member crockett.

 

[tenngun]

I see what your saying. It would help to know what it was a photo of. The people look soutwestren( no topi for them) the saddle looks northern plains. The country behind them could be steep( high plains) or plateau ( south west) :idunno: then the cover and set up could be by the people or a set by the photographer, the whole thing a mismatch.

 

[Nativearizonan]

I see what your saying. It would help to know what it was a photo of. The people look soutwestren( no topi for them) the saddle looks northern plains. The country behind them could be steep( high plains) or plateau ( south west) :idunno: then the cover and set up could be by the people or a set by the photographer, the whole thing a mismatch.

The guy in the middle, without the hat, is Blackfoot Chief Mad Wolf. The men on either side of him, are visiting Ktunaxa (Kutenai), and this is their camp on the Blackfoot Reservation. The photo is from 1898 and I seriously doubt it was staged anymore than to ask if they minded their picture being taken.

APA Citation
McClintock, W., & McClintock, W. [Chief Mad Wolf (center) with two Kutenai Indians]. 419.

MLA Citation
McClintock, Walter, and Walter McClintock. [Chief Mad Wolf (center) With Two Kutenai Indians]. 419.

BTW, good eye on the saddle ID!

 

[Black Hand]

The guy in the middle, without the hat, is Blackfoot Chief Mad Wolf.

The light blue beads on his moccasins are another clue he is Blackfoot...

Now that you mention it, it does appear to be a tipi cover.

 

[tenngun]

Good info, you often have to wonder about nineteenth century photos. Even up to the 30s staged photos were common. The more I look at it the more it looks curved like a cover and not square. Was this a color photo, or a colored photo?

 

[Nativearizonan]

The photo above is a digital copy of a hand colored lantern slide.

 

[tenngun]

Looking at photos of Indian camps from the 70s and 80s we often see mostly tipis, but several small squat conical tents. Worn out tipis, cut off??? Single person dwelling??? Men's club tipi???

 

[Ringel05]

Looking at photos of Indian camps from the 70s and 80s we often see mostly tipis, but several small squat conical tents. Worn out tipis, cut off??? Single person dwelling??? Men's club tipi???

Section 8........

 

[Nativearizonan]

Looking at photos of Indian camps from the 70s and 80s we often see mostly tipis, but several small squat conical tents. Worn out tipis, cut off??? Single person dwelling??? Men's club tipi???

Actually children had play tipis, just as we may have had a treehouse or playhouse. There were also smaller tipis used as travel tipis by small groups traveling away from the main village on trips of short duration. I even saw a late 1800s photo of a small tipi full of puppies.

 

[tenngun]

:haha:

 

[crockett]

Well, to sort of reveal what is on my mind...There are a lot of folks trying to get some type of documentation on the pre-1840 use of a lean to type tent. It seems these conical tents are definitely pre-1840 and can be set up with just another couple of poles (compared to a lean to). You could close them up tight in a bad rain or open the front for a fire. I think I'll try making one, soak in tea to get the same color as in the photo and then try to water proof.
I thought you cut paraffin into gasoline and brushed that on the tent but it seems it would be highly flammable. There is linseed oil but that would seem to make a heavy fabric. What kind of waterproof is best?

 

[Ringel05]

modern

Well, to sort of reveal what is on my mind...There are a lot of folks trying to get some type of documentation on the pre-1840 use of a lean to type tent. It seems these conical tents are definitely pre-1840 and can be set up with just another couple of poles (compared to a lean to). You could close them up tight in a bad rain or open the front for a fire. I think I'll try making one, soak in tea to get the same color as in the photo and then try to water proof.
I thought you cut paraffin into gasoline and brushed that on the tent but it seems it would be highly flammable. There is linseed oil but that would seem to make a heavy fabric. What kind of waterproof is best?

Modern products like Scotch Guard and Thompson's Water Seal are good but I think they're also flammable. Eons ago I "painted" my wall tent with very watered down white latex paint, there's a formula for how much water to paint ratio that unfortunately I do not remember (3:1/4:1). Too little it doesn't work very well, too much and it ends up stiff and the paint coating will crack when folded, the idea is to let the thinned paint soak into the fabric but not coat it. It worked very well as I had made the tent out of a light weight canvas the paint sealed the relatively open weave. Latex paint is water based therefore not flammable or combustible.
I did have to redo it every couple of years but I was using the tent two to four weekends out of every month so that's to be expected.
Since you may dye the fabric then color becomes an issue, finding a color paint that matches the dye can be tricky.