Coning the muzzle

[swquiro]

I recently read an article by Peter Alexander on coning the muzzle in the March/April issue of Muzzleloader, as well as a letter in the same issue on the same subject. It could lead one to believe that you could take an average shooting rifle, cone its muzzle, and end up with clover leaf groups all day long. I can see where this procedure would facilitate loading, but would it really have advantages over a good crown job as far as accuracy is concerned? Input appreciated. Thanks

 

[Stumpkiller]

It is my understanding that a crown cutting down into the rifling only makes for easier loading. A completely flat and flush crown that was perfectly even all the way around would be the most accurate, but it would also slice patches being loaded and be prone to damage from the rod in loading and cleaning. A radius crown is a compromise. A very slight trumpet or cone reaming into the lands makes the rifle MUCH easier but increases the chance that something gets off center.

The barrel I just ordered from LC Rice has a "medium" crown that allows a ball to be thumb started to a point of full ball diameter below the muzzle. The risk of slight uneveness between crown and bore is, I hope, balanced by a untraumatized ball and patch. As long as the blast escapes around the ball and patch evenly around it's circumference at the moment it leaves the rifling it will be an accurate barrel.

 

[LRB]

Simply put, if you are an accuracy nut, you do not want it. If you shoot for fun, and are satisfied with common accuracy, you may consider it. Done carefully and right, it should have little effect.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with Wick and Stumpkiller. As he said, "As long as the blast escapes around the ball and patch evenly around it's circumference at the moment it leaves the rifling it will be an accurate barrel."

The problem is if the cone is not exactly centered with the bore (and I mean exactly) the gas pressure will escape on one side of the ball or the other.
If the pressure is only 5000 pounds per square inch and the cone is only 1 1/2 inches deep, that is still a lot of pressure pushing the ball sideways during that last 1 1/2 inch.

 

[Deadeye]

Having cut a lot of crowns on a lot of different types of firearms for about 40 yrs. I have a hard time believing that
a coned barrel can shoot as well as a regular crown. Not saying it won't, I just don't believe it. :no: :no:

 

[Ohio Joe]

I agree with you, Deadeye... Whether coned or crowned regular, I believe a person is only as accurate as their loading skills, optimum load worked up for a rifle, and their shooting ability... Provided the barrel is crowned, or coned properly...

 

[bob1961]

what is crowning....you guys are talking about 1 1/2" of crown that has to be dead center....is it like T/C QLA muzzle...................bob

 

[LRB]

Crowning is cutting a recess at the muzzle. This is done on modern as well as ML's. On ML's, the purpose is to allow loading without tearing of the patch. It can be shallow, just into the muzzle, or deeper as in coning. Less is normally best for accuracy, deep is better for loading. One has to decide what is best for him, based on desired performance. Either shallow crowned or deeply coned it MUST be as perfectly concentric, square, to the bore as possible, or as someone stated, you will get uneven gas escape which will hurt accuracy. This can be done with various methods, from using a lathe, ball file, or a cone tool if you want it coned. A lathe in my opinion is not as good as the ball file, but to each his own. I have heard many good reports on coning, but I just do not trust it. At least yet. Many, apparently the majority of 18th century rifles were coned, but I still don't trust it. The serious target shooters don't use it and that says a lot to me.

 

If done properly, a cone cut into the muzzle will have NO impact on accuracy. If done improperly, a cone cut into the muzzle will have no impact on accuracy! Some of the nation's top shooters have already run extensive before and after tests on unconed and then coned barrels. The barrel, even a flawed barrel, WILL shoot to the same place each time when loaded with identical charges. You don't have to believe it, that dosen't alter the fact that it is our loading, supporting and aiming that causes irregularities in shot placement.
Look at all of the threads on this forum looking for the perfect lube! The necessity of weighing every round ball! What direction the patch should be arranged on the muzzle! The thickness of pillow ticking for the love of Pete!! The barrel, even if it is imperfect or irregular, is the one constant we have, everything else is a variable!
It is a machine! It has no will of its own! Our inconsistancies and variations in ammunition are the only cause of pattern spread. Our shooting stinks, so we blame the gun. Shooting off hand in hunting or informal competition, and that is the only real place a coned muzzle is needed, our guns are better than we are!

 

[Deadeye]

Ghost, Thanks so much for setting us straight, now we can buy flawed barrels with improper coning and be assured that they will shoot as well as the best target barrels, who'd a thunk it. :bull: Let's see, your the same guy who could't figure out how to get 50 grs. of powder in a hollow cane, aren't you. Figures.

 

[rabjr]

Joe Wood at The Firelock Shop makes a really nice coning tool thats just about fool proof. His email is [email protected] I believe he can send you instructions via email so you can see whats involved. I have one of his .54 cal tools but not sure how well the instructions would transfer to a scan.

 

[LRB]

Hey Deadeye, Ghost needs to imform Shilen and Hart, ect. that they are wasteing their time making benchrest barrels, when any idiot could just screw in a pitted military surplus and be just as well off for 20.oo

 

[wolf]

Hey Deadeye, Ghost needs to imform Shilen and Hart, ect. that they are wasteing their time making benchrest barrels, when any idiot could just screw in a pitted military surplus and be just as well off for 20.oo

Can't you and Deadeye disagree with Ghost without being rude. If you disagree with someone, why bother to comment if you don't have anything constructive to say? It offers nothing of value and doesn't add to your credibility.

 

[roundball]

And in the interest of helping this excellent new forum I'm also going to comment that the conduct is not welcome and needs to stop...I look forward to participating on this forum as an integral part of my muzzleloading hobby and I don't appreciate signing on and seeing this kind of sniping.

One of the positive aspects of this new board is that it's been devoid of this sort of conduct, and people who get caught up in the moment need to take a breath and really rethink what they're doing...really ask themselves just how important winning the point in a hobby discussion really is.

One individual to date who went a step beyond where this is at right now was already barred from this board...he's snuck back in under false pretenses and names but it's known and being watched...so far so good.

So by all means join the exchange of techinal info, but if someone else's opinion is different from yours, so be it...just let it be a different opinion.

Hopefully the success of any of our lives does not hinge on whether or not someone has a different opinion about using cane for a powder measure, or whatever the insignificant topic of discussion was.

 

[tg]

I think that some posters method and manner of presenting their opinions may bring out the worst in others, it is the nature of mankind, we all may fall into the trap from time to time or spring it on someone else.....I found a neat feature on this forum that allows you to ignore posts from any one you wish so if there is a person who continualy causes you to want to respond in a manner that may not be considered proper you can just use this to block them out.

 

[bob1961]

I think that some posters method and manner of presenting their opinions may bring out the worst in others, it is the nature of mankind, we all may fall into the trap from time to time or spring it on someone else.....I found a neat feature on this forum that allows you to ignore posts from any one you wish so if there is a person who continualy causes you to want to respond in a manner that may not be considered proper you can just use this to block them out.

how's this done.............bob

 

[tg]

Click on the users name and it will take to their profile, at the bottom is the "ignore" option.

 

[bob1961]

thank you................bob

 

[LRB]

WOLF, ROUNDBALL, you are right, I just found the statements so outrageous that I had a weak moment. My apologies to the board.

 

[Deadeye]

Same here, I got carried away, I'm sorry and I apologize.
Deadeye