Convert Target revolver to fixed sights?

[ChrisPer]

I have a Uberti Remington 1858 with target sights. To compete properly in competition I need fixed sights, but its too much of a hassle to trade due to licensing inefficiency in our Police ($75 plus three months waiting). I learned a lesson - 'buying mood' is not the way to go gun shopping!

I am planning to file up a non-adjustable sight that fits into the milled rearsight slot and just screw a brass screw into the foresight screwhole and file it to shape. But to save the work, is there a store-bought alternative?

 

[pargent]

That sounds the best way, make sure the rear fits in with the original trough shape , you should be able to make this reversible. I truely wish more revolver shooters felt as you do jnsteed of trying to get away with target sights. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[fraungie]

why do you need to change the front sight? It is fixed and not movable.

 

[ChrisPer]

The front sight is high to go with the higher rear sight. It also is an undercut Patridge (ie black, wide and square) style, not at all appropriate for a match which requires sights 'in the spirit of' the originals.

Unfortunately the original sights on many pistols seem to be designed on the assumption that when you want to hit his hat you aim at a bad guy's knees! To be dead on or even 6-o'clock hold, you need quite a high front sight. My 1860 Army needed a good half inch higher foresight than the original.

It sounds nice to duplicate the trough of the original Remmy rear sight, but I was also thinking it might be feasible to have fixed but exchangeable rear sights, drop in different windages or make one to try, then cut another with windage to suit exactly.

 

[pargent]

Then you are back to target sights

 

[ChrisPer]

Well, they cant be adjusted except by filing or replacement of the entire unit, and they wont have modern big square notches. If I could just 'make it like it was' I would.

I assume you agree that a taller front is OK so I don't have to aim at knee level for a head-high target?

 

[nilo52]

I think a "taget sight" is one that is field adjustable. I belive that a sight can be improved and still be in the Fixed sight group,
just my 2 cents,
nilo52

 

[Billnpatti]

I suppose you have a copy of the rules under which you will be shooting. They should clearly specify what kind of sight is acceptable and if you have any questions, you should go to one of the officials for clarification. The original revolvers had a low rounded front sight and the rear sight was a notch in the nose of the hammer. If sights different from these are allowed, you can buy various sights from places such as Track of The Wolf or Dixie Gun Works that should, with minimal fitting, fit right into your dovetail in your revolver. You can find both of them online or you can call them. Both are extremely helpful.

 

[pargent]

The sight picture acuired counts as well thats a biggie too.

 

[mjulihn]

The original revolvers had a low rounded front sight and the rear sight was a notch in the nose of the hammer.

True enough for Colts and their modern replicas. However, the Remington and its clones uses a groove along the top of the frame as a rear sight... :wink:

 

[FishDFly]

If you are wanting to shoot NMLRA sanctioned shoots for "As Issue" pistols the front sight will not pass the inspection required.

Before you do a lot of work, I would have an "experienced" person in the inspection of As Issue pistols bless what you your wanting to do to see if will pass the inspection process.

Once you modify the pistol, it is not longer "As Issue".

r

 

[FishDFly]

From the NMLRA Rules and Regulations, hope this helps.

6102.2 ”“ As-Issued Percussion Revolver
6102.2a ”“ Description ”“ Any original or replica revolver as issued to Civil War troops.
6102.2b ”“ Grips ”“ may not be checkered or altered. Target grips not allowed.
6102.2c ”“ Sights ”“ adjustable sights are not permitted.



6102.2c.1 ”“ Front ”“ sight should be pinhead, narrow blade (maximum width of .080”), narrow pyramid or similar, but not broad Partridge
type, appropriate to the revolver replicated. Remington front sight must retain original half-moon profile. Height of the front sight is
unrestricted. Dovetailed front sights are permitted, but must conform to barrel flats.
6102.2c.2 ”“ Rear ”“ sight “U” or “V” may be deepened and widened, but not altered in configuration. A rectangular flat base notch is not
permitted.
6102.2d ”“ Actions ”“ may be tuned as long as trigger pull is safe and half-**** safety is functional. Trigger stops are not permitted.
6102.2e ”“ Ammunition ”“ Round ball and conical bullets are allowed.

 

[pargent]

Depends where you are ?

 

[FishDFly]

Yep, sure does, not going to travel a 1,000 miles and not be allowed to shoot cause I cannot read printed rules, seems simple does, it not.

 

[ChrisPer]

SO... finally got most of it done.

I got possession of the revolver after Christmas, and have been pottering away on the project bit by bit.

Class 1: Revolvers:
Original and Replica Cap and Ball Revolvers. NO grip modifications are allowed, but
the height of the foresight can be varied so long as it remains the original style. Ball
and conical bullets only.
Class 2: Pistol
Original and Replica Pistols. The same Rule applies to the foresights of replica
pistols, i.e. any height so long as the original style of sight remains. Modern pistols
of traditional design made with click adjustable sights permitted so long as no
adjustments are made during a match. Round balls only.

My plan was to put a Remington style pillar foresight on a dovetail, and have a rearsight slot milled along the top strap; then either dovetail a rearsight notch in the cross slot you can see in the picture, or make an insert rear and solder it into the slot.

I bought a Pedersoli dovetail based foresight, and while it was getting here turned and filed a couple of trial ones myself.

I found that the foresight is not screwed on as it appeared. The ramp appeared to be hard soldered - I couldnt shift it with a propane torch so I expected the oxy would have to take it off.  It looked like I have to file off the layer of cork and refinish the grips too.

So... lots of work later.

The foresight ramp was not silver soldered on, friends.  It was screwed on, with one screw and two extra pins to keep things straight; and a dovetailed blind cover hides the screw top plus the top block was screwed through it.  You will find that innocently hitting it with a torch does nothing until you also apply a bloody great wrench.

Then you find a soldered, broken off screw stub and two pins in deformed blind holes to deal with. PLUS silver solder to file off. Uberti made that foresight ramp to stay on.  nya:  nya:  nya:

The cork shaved off and some oil finish on the grips.  Note the tooth raised by punching over the front and rear grip straps.

Having ball peened the punch craters to try and shrink the punch holes, now draw filing the straps.

Cold blueing the grip straps.

Far enough for now.

Drilling the post hole for the foresight with a small centre drill for rigidity; this is the original screw hole for the ramp but the broken-off screw stub is soldered in.

My handmade turned foresight has a 3mm machine screw up its base, but is not threaded to the barrel because I couldn't see how to get it to come out straight.  Foresight sweated on, needs polish and blue.

Rearsight frame configuration:

I ground a safe face on a triangular file, then turned the rearsight slot into a dovetail just over 1mm deep (.050")

Filed a blank sight form keeping a long handle on it. Now it almost fits, I filed a break on the sharp edge - that dovetail is not sharp inside.

Notch cut with a needle file. Blued in place. Still to dress down closer to the outside form of the frame.

New sight picture.

Friend Matt, an American Civil War buff on the far side of the Earth, learns that he NEEDS his own percussion revolver.

 

[ChrisPer]

Finally shot the revolver (in a match) and the group is about 4" (100mm) left and 3" (75mm) high from a normal 6 o'clock target sighting hold. Calculating it with the sight radius I get 1.1mm right rearsight move, and 0.76mm file the rearsight down. This leaves the sight groove at the extreme right of the machined long slot, and considerable projection out the right of the frame. I filed the side projections most of the way down then filed the top down the planned 0.76. That left a very shallow U notch,so I deepened the notch. Cleaned up and re-blued.

On to the next project!

 

[pargent]

That is why us guys who shoot in matches, for traditional sights spit and fume so much about guys using modern sights it does make a huge difference does it not .

 

[ChrisPer]

That is why us guys who shoot in matches, for traditional sights spit and fume so much about guys using modern sights it does make a huge difference does it not .

I think so... I want to shoot with the people doing it for real, by the the rules and not con myself that I am doing it better by taking advantage of additional technology.

 

[pargent]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

It would seem that the easiest fix would be to find someone who has a similar revolver with fixed sights who would be willing to trade with you. It just so happens that I have a Remington with fixed sights that I would be willing to trade for your Remington with adjustable sights. My Remington is NIB, papers and all. I would consider a trade if your gun is in pristine condition. Any interest?

Oh Oh!! I read further and saw what all you had done. Never mind on the trade.