correct type of bullet

[RMJPieracini]

Need to know the correct type of bullet for several target style rifles. Diameter, length, grease grooves, powder charge. Will pistol bullets work? barrels mic @ .38 .40 & .41 Names of makers, Billinghurst, J.Klooker made in Dyerville, White from NY, J.Meunier made in Milwaukie, Wis.

 

[nkbj]

If you can, photos of the rifling geometries and measuring of the rates of twists would sure help.

 

[longcruise]

Need twist rates. Those pistol bullets will probably work. Not likely they are too long. If they are very fast twist, longer bullets might give better accuracy results.

You will probably have to slug your bores for size and then size the bullets accordingly.

 

[Zonie]

Almost none of the pistol bullets on the market today are the same diameter as the caliber the of the gun they are shot in.

For instance, a .38 caliber bullet is actually .356 or .357.

A bullet for a 10mm auto is .400 but if your bore size is actually .400, that bullet would be very difficult to load. (Muzzleloading bullets need at least .001 clearance or they tend to hang up).

There are a few .41 caliber bullets that are actually .410 but here again, they may be difficult to load.

Another problem with modern pistol bullets is the lead ones are almost always cast out of a hard lead alloy.

They will swill very little when they are fired so it is unlikely they will seal the bore and grab the rifling grooves.
Bullets made for muzzleloading is best when it is soft, pure lead.

In order to give a better answer, as GoodCheer said, the actual bore size, rifling depth and twist rate is needed.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Zonie is right. One notable exception to the above are the . 358 dia. 38 Special wad cutters (particularly the hollow base ones) that are often shot in 36 cal guns. You have to check your twist rates though, because those bullets are 148 gr., and a 36 cal RB only weighs about 70. Keep your loads light to avoid blowing the ring off of them. I have no idea if the bevel base WC bullets would seal up like a Maxi-Ball or not. Maybe yes. Maybe no.

I would still advise against shooting them though. When soft lead scrapes against steel in the barrel it leaves a coating of lead over the fouling, and that may require a brush to remove it. I've read too many; "my brush is stuck in my bore, now what?" threads to want to do that.

 

[RMJPieracini]

All righty then.
The twist rate in the .38 cal. is 1:32
in the .41 cal. 1:36 and the .40 cal. 1:38

 

[mhb]

Those rifling pitches are almost certainly for the picket bullet, a short, conical bullet shot with a cloth patch, and not for any sort of cylindrical bullet with lubricant grooves intended to be shot naked.
Many early target-type muzzleloading rifles were made for the picket bullet, and are often fitted with a false muzzle to aid in starting the patched bullet straight. In any case, the muzzle of a picket gun is normally recessed for the patch, and a 'guide starter' is used for the same purpose - to start the bullet straight in the bore: the body of the starter is recessed for a close fit on the rifle's muzzle, and the nose of the plunger is shaped for the bullet used. These methods of loading are critical in keeping the bullet from tipping in the bore (because it has virtualy no cylindrical body to keep it straight), which spoils accuracy.
Some photos of the rifles, and particularly the muzzles, would help in determining how they are intended to be loaded.

mhb - Mike

 

[RMJPieracini]

There ya go. Not sure what a picket bullet looks like but will find out. Thanks to all who have answered.

 

[mhb]

I'd like to suggest a couple of good books:

'The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle', by Ned Roberts, and
'The Improved American Rifle', by John Ratcliffe Chapman, one of the first and foremost proponents of the picket bullet and its use in rifles.
Both of these books have a wealth of information on such rifles and their proper management.
Having owned and learned to shoot picket rifles, I can tell you they are different, and there is much to learn, if you hope to make one shoot well.

mhb - Mike

 

[longcruise]

Well, my 1/48 twist .45 shoots a 255 gr pure lead wadcutter with amazing accuracy. Bullets drop in pure lead at about .451 and are indeed a bit hard to start. Sized to .450 or.449 might be better. Not a dedicated bullet shooter, so my experiments have not gone very far.

Conventional wisdom says deep rifling is not suited to naked lead, but you won't know until you try!

 

[Billnpatti]

I agree that the idea of using the Picket Bullet may be a good one in theory but the big problem will be getting a starter that will fit onto your rifles to ensure getting the conical bullet started straight. Pickets may work quite well if you can find or make a starter and if you can find a supply of Picket bullets in the correct caliber. I have no idea of how readily available they are since I shoot only patched round balls. Of course, you could buy a Picket bullet mould but that just adds to the investment of trying Pickets. They are a good idea but may require some depth to your pockets.