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Cushion wads vs patched ball

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Cpl.Parker

40 Cal.
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
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Cushion wads vs patched ball. I had heard that you could obtain better accuracy with a smoothbore if you loaded a cushion wad between the powder and a patched round ball. So I tried an experiment. I loaded and shot, at 25 yards, 5 patched round ball with cushion wad and 5 just patched round ball. The patched round ball was more accurate and had a tighter group than the cushion wad-patched round ball. Sorry my camera is toast so I can't post photos. Has anyone else try this?
 
Yes i have and most of the time the gun shot better with the cushion wad, but my last one did better with just the patched rd ball. My new fowler arrived today, i have to go to the P.O. and pick it up, so i will get to see which way works best with it.
 
Most folks that I know who do use a a wad, use a hard card wad, over powder, then the patched ball.

The card wad does seem to make my gun shoot harder.
J.D.
 
From what I have picked up here on smoothbores when they are talking about using a wad they mean a wad and then a patched ball on top of the wad not one (or) the other.
The patched ball by itself may get blowby or burned patches both not good.
The ball on top of a wad doesn't keep the ball centered also not good.
The wad and then patched ball now you have protected you patched ball kept it centered and should get the best of both worlds. IMHO
Fox :hatsoff:
 
YOu need to shoot more than one 5 shot group, and you also need to use a chronograph to see if its the loading components, or the shooter who is influencing the size of any group. I would recomment using a stiff Overpowder card wad, about 1/8" thick on top of the pwoder. Then if you want to just run a PRB down on top of that, go ahead and do so. But, expect to have higher velocities than when just shooting the PRB with no wad. Velocity becomes important because of barrel harmonics. You may just have found a " sweet spot " with that PRB load in your gun, while the lubed cushion wads increased the velocity and took the ball out of the sweet spot. All guns are different.

I found that shooting at such a short range told me nothing about a load's ability to group. The target is so close that you lose that front sight in the black. I move mine to 50yds for load development, and when I find something that seems promising at 50 yds after shooting several groups, I move it back to 100 yds to see what happens. In smoothbores, the ball is going to come down through the sound barrier at about 80 yards, one way or another, so I am not expecting tiny groups at 100 yds. I am looking for consistency in flight, so that the balls do form some kind of group on paper. Then I go back to 75 yards to see just how small a group the load fires before it comes down through the sound barrier. The difference between the 75 yard target, and the 100 yard target tells me what the trans-sonic zone forces are doing to my round ball. ( 1250 to 1100 fps) If you are really adventursome, put your chronograph out there at the 50 and 75 yard targets, and shoot groups over the chronograph. Then you will get very good readings on retained velocity, as well as individual information on the performance and POI of each ball.
 
Cpl Parker. I shoot against a lot of off hand primitive shooters. Many of us shoot smoothbores. I don't know any serious shooters in my group that use cards or wads when shooting round ball. We all use patches. I guess if you really want to carry a large pouch full of loading stuff, then all the card and wad business is OK, it just seems like a lot of trouble to me. If I can cut a card, split a ball on an axe and ring a gong at 80 yards during a woodswalk with my smoothbore, I'm happy, I don't really care whether I can hit a 10 ring or not.

Many Klatch
 
Thanks everyone for you answers. I see I need to experiment more to find out what works best.

Cheers
Kevin
 
Cpl,
I found in our links page some interesting reading that may give food for thought. On the
Main Forum page click on Member
Resources, then click Muzzleloading Links. Go down to the General Reading column. Click on Bobs Black Powder Notebook. Then scroll down to the bottom area and click on My Smoothbore Loads. I found it very interesting reading and am going to try some of his ideas. Many more good articles to choose from also. Good Luck.
 
I seem to get better accuracy without the wad column under my patched ball also...........I think that sometimes the wad disturbs the ball just as they leave the muzzle.................Bob
 
Hardly like to occur. The Lead ball weighs so much that it quickly separates from the cloth patch, which is between the wad and the ball. Is your muzzle square to the bore? What kind of wad or wads are you using under that PRB?
 
Alamosa,

Thanks for the heads-up, I will give Bob's method a try. What a wealth of information in Member's Resources.

Thanks
P
 
It seems square, One thing that I have noticed about my smoothbore (a J.B) is that one range session that is good does not mean it is a good consistant load........I've raved over certain powder/wad/ball/patch combos and the next range session they didnt seem to work as good, but this .600 ball and drill cloth patch lubed with bore butter has seemed to be the most consistant from one range session to the next. Plus I have to use 3f black with this gun as the touch hole is so close to the face of the breechplug that after 2 or 3 shots of 2f black I have misfires because there is so much red ash built up on the face of the breechplug. Pickin the hole doesnt help much unless I scrape the breech. Maybe I got a bad batch of Goex 2f?. With the 3f Goex I can shoot many times,probably upwards of 20 shots before I scrape the breech. I just always assumed that the explosion of the powder really crams that wad tight against the ball and it might or might not affect the ball as they all leave the muzzle. Now my other rifle guns which use a thinner patch needs the wad to protect the patch from burning as I use a thinner patch so I can load without a short starter.....................Bob
 
Bob : Try cleaning the breech area of the barrel with alcohol before you load any powder. Then, do work on sealing the bore properly with tight fitting patches. Its my experience that the red residue is an indicator of incomplete burning, and that should just not be happening with your gun. You are using FFFg powder to raise the pressure in the chamber to burn up the powder, when you should be using FFg powder and a good tight wad to raise the pressure. If your gun is not fitted with one of Jim Champer's parabolic vent liners, do that. The parabolic curve focuses both heat and pressure back into the chamber as gases are trying to escape out the vent hole, which raises both the temperature and chamber pressure for the brief instant when you need it to fully consume the powder. Residue should be most carbon, as that is the largest element in black powder. But in your 20 ga., all you should have to do is run a bore bursh down the barrel to loosen the carbon, and then upend the barrel to knock and pour the carbon chunks out of the barrel. On a humid day, you then may want to follow up with a slightly dampened patch, ( I use spit unless its below freezing) , followed up with a dry patch on a cleaning jag to dry the barrel. Give the jag a clockwise turn when it butts against the breechplug. to help wipe the face of the plug off of any residue.

I have used my vent pick to scrape crud off the face of the breechplug. A better made gun will leave about 1/8" gap between the vent hole, and the face of the breech, so that there is some room for crud to build up where it will not interfere with your vent. However, cleaning between shots is the best way to keep that vent cleared. The next best thing to do is always use a vent pick to poke a hole in the powder charge in the barrel to make it possible for the heat and flame of your priming charge to reach more than one granule of powder in the barrel on ignition.

If you will use a chronograph with that FFFg powder charge, you will find spikes in velocities, from one shot to another, and from one day at the range to another. That happens much less when you use FFg powder, so you don't have the balls shooting to different POI from one range sesson to the next, unless its very windy out. i don't have any argument with people who use FFFg in a 20 ga. gun, if it produces a consistent load for them. When it doesn't the problem is very easily seen by using a chronograph. I found it took much more careful attention to loading when I used FFFg powder than when I used FFg powder to get consistency in my shots. I was not expecting that, however, as my best friend had done exhaustive testing with a .62 cal. rifle, and finally settled on a FFFg powder load for the gun, because it gave him the most consistent accuracy, day in and day out. In fact, someone talked him into selling that gun for a nice profit after seeing the several targets he had saved from shooting it over many days. I was expecting the same result in my 20 ga. smoothbore. So, please don't think I am just prejudiced for or against a given powder in making these comments.
 
My JB was the same way with the vent hole being too close to the breechplug face. After a bout 5-6 shots with 2f i would start getting misfires from the vent being plugged with fouling build up on the breechplug. When i had this new fowler built by Bobby i made it a point to sak him to set the lock a little further forward so the vent hole would be further from the breech face. I shot 20 shots through it the other day with no fouling pluffing the vent problems.
 
Thanks Paul for the reply.......I will probably try the White lightning liner as mine does not have a liner ,but a touchhole that is coned on the outside......I dont like the fact that the cone is visible above the frizzen when it is closed.......Looks like a good way for a raindrop to funnel into the breech......I probably need to take out the breechplug and make me a small "Ditch" across the face. Or grind it down just a little bit............Is a White lightning liner the same as a Parabolic liner?.............Bob
 
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