Custom Flinter Questions

[ndbilly]

Maybe this should go on the Builder's Forum but that is oriented to people who like to do it themselves. When you're as mechanically challenged as I am, however, you have to go another route. Would appreciate your opinions on the following:

45 cal. Lancaster or Bedford County style rifle with a curly maple stock, a patch box, of course, and a modicum of additional furniture. Enough to make it pleasant to look at but not enough to be a work of art. If you had $1,000 to spend, could you get a truly custom made rifle with these features? How much of the material do you suppose would be "pre-fab" at that price? I'm not suggesting that the maker fell the trees or smelt the metal but I'm looking for something beyond a fancy kit/parts assemblage. Or is what I've described unrealistic for that price?

Thanks.

 

[shmrck1]

ndbilly,
i hope you get a lot of input on your ?. i would like to know also!!!!!
snake-eyes eace: :thumbsup:

 

[brushbuster]

i would suggest sending an e-mail to tva or black heart arms .if you look into the links section,there are several builders listed that you could inquire

 

[shmrck1]

brushbuster,
i have done that with gun builders and without
almost exceptions they wanted almost 1k to start the project :results:
snake-eyes eace:

 

[brushbuster]

i'd be more than happy to build a kit but i don't think my skills are adequate enough to do this for someone else although my second rifle had fewer mistakes than the first one

 

[C_Laubach]

Maybe this should go on the Builder's Forum but that is oriented to people who like to do it themselves. When you're as mechanically challenged as I am, however, you have to go another route. Would appreciate your opinions on the following:

45 cal. Lancaster or Bedford County style rifle with a curly maple stock, a patch box, of course, and a modicum of additional furniture. Enough to make it pleasant to look at but not enough to be a work of art. If you had $1,000 to spend, could you get a truly custom made rifle with these features? How much of the material do you suppose would be "pre-fab" at that price? I'm not suggesting that the maker fell the trees or smelt the metal but I'm looking for something beyond a fancy kit/parts assemblage. Or is what I've described unrealistic for that price?

Thanks.

Good question! It will probably take about 200 hours to build a rifle like you have described (roughly). :results: Now that is just the labor.

Now lets add up parts
Barrel-$200.00
Lock-$110.00
Butt-plate $15.00
Trigger Guard-$12.00
Sheet brass for thimbles, side plate, nose-cap-$10.00
Wood-$150.00-$500.00
For Fred Miller to inlet barrel-$55.00

So before you even get started you are in the hole for minimum of $552.00 to $902.00 depending on how nice of a piece of wood you want.

Now lets add some labor to the equation: I don't know what the national average is for pay wage but will just
say $10.00 an hour. That brings your labor charge to $2000.00. So you are probably looking to at a price around $3000.00. But that means you have to find someone who is willing to work for $10.00 an hour.

Obviously if you go the kit route this will all change. There are alot of other things that can change the pice. You could go with a pre-carved stock but you did say a CUSTOM flinter, not a kit.
:m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

NDBilly,

Do not despair.

http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/

L.E. Williams can do a rifle within your budget that will be a worthwhile project. What you won't get is carving or engraving. But, you'll get a nice, simple and certainly functional rifle. You might even squeek in a swamped barrel is you leave off some other niceities.

L.E. produces a Cumberland and a Bucks, instead of a Lancaster or a Bedford, but you may be able to convince him to tweak the stock shape. That would be between you and him.

As far as "pre-fab". If you want a gunsmith to build you a custom lock you've blown your wad right there. And it would be mighty tough to replace any part should one break. A $100 Jim Chambers flintlock with a little modification to the lockplate to mimic a particular school is used on a lot of $3,000 (& up) rifles.

I got a "discount" on mine because I accepted a stock from an aged blank the gunsmith had harvested and sawn himself. :haha:

Figure 1/2 for parts and 1/2 for labor on a "simple" rifle. Add carving and engraving and the labor skyrockets; as it should. Most gunsmiths are probably recovering less than $15/hr for a highly skilled job.

 

[Hawkeye]

You need to check out TVM. You can get a nice semi custom rifle for under $1000. Or if you can get a little more into the budget they make a nicely engraved and carved rifle for about $1500.
http://www.avsia.com/tvm/grand.htm

 

Your discription is very vague.

Swamped barrel? What brand? $100-$500
Tuned lock? Who built it? $100-$300
What grade wood? $50-$500

Most "custom builders" do not even list a "barn gun or poor boy" for $1000.

Someone said this was a 200 hour gun, and from a blank they would be right.

Using a preinletted stock it is more like 40 hours for a simple no-carving gun.

Call Tip Curtis at The Frontier Shop in Cross Plains, TN.

Tip keeps guns in all states of finish and sells "in the white" guns that require only final finish. You might get him to part with sonething reasonable for $1000. His average price for "In the white" is around $1200-$1500. Tip uses NO cheap componants or fittings. You would receive a custom gun without a final finish.

Naragasset Arms will build you a one off Poor boy for $800-$1000. Straight barrel, standard lock and single trigger.

Early rustic is good.

Caywood is excellent but on the high end of your budget.

TVM is everywhere, like VWs in the 60s. You can spot them a mile away!

Yes, I have used guns from all these vendors, so this is not random speculation. All of them make a "good gun for the money".

 

[squirejohn]

I've been thinking about getting a Jim Chambers kit gun. However I have no gun building skills and wonder about how many hours and/or $ (ball park figure) it would take for a professional to put one together in the white?

 

[amccall]

It sounds like you and I are in the same boat. I was wanting the same thing and did a lot of looking around on the internet. Found a place here in Ohio and bought the parts and built a 45 cal. Lancaster long rifle. Compared to many here on the forum it is not much but I had a great time building it and I am having a better time shooting it.
It cost me around $600 for parts and took me 2-3 months(10-12) hours a week to build. This is my first gun of this difficulty and I hope to build another, and with less mistakes.
Hopefully these pictures turn out, they are not the best but they do give you and idea of what I am talking about.

This is also the first time I posted pictures so I hope it turns out.

 

[Hoyt]

I did what He-Bear did..just decided to try and put one together myself. However with all the little tools here and there, etc. i could have bought one cheaper..but if it will shoot it'll mean a lot more too me.
It's a very good feeling for me anyway to put together and put my personal touches on my own traditional long gun..

 

[B.Habermehl]

Your Jim Chambers kit will take 25hrs or more to complete on average, unless you have a fair amount of practice building these type of guns. This is for a undecorated gun just neatly finished. Carving, engraving, and inlays add up the hours. Add to this a reasonable hourly charge. Some gun assemblers might be faster than this, but not by much. 1/2 the total hrs would cover the assembly, give or take. 1/2 would be for the finishing. This is some where close to my average for this type of gun. :results:

 

[rootnuke]

I don't know about the 1000.00 budget but you could add

Muzzleloader Builders Supply (479) 292-8866 to your list if your gonna build it yourself.

If your gonna build your own you gotta have tools though.

 

[shmrck1]

He-Bear,
pictures turned out great!! thats also a fine looking gun :master: :applause: :master: :applause: :master: :applause:
snake-eyes eace: :thumbsup:

 

[ndbilly]

Well, once again the most basic of economic lessons is driven home. You get what you pay for. Sounds like $1k is, at best, entry level for a custom rifle. I'm only going to do this once, so I'll keep eating beans and putting my change into the Mason jar. Thanks for all your tips and leads. I have a much clearer idea of what is involved now.

 

[squirejohn]

Thanks for the feedback
It appears as though I may be able to swing it cost wise; will have to wait until after taxes and see what's left in the piggy bank

 

[doverdog]

Attached are two photos of the .40 Isaac Haines rifle built by my friend Ron Luckenbill of Recreating History guns. The website address is www.recreatinghistory.com I'm sure he could build you one very similar for $1400-1500. It has a Rice barrel and Siler lock. The wood is grown locally and picked by Ron at the mill, then kiln dried. He has much wood on hand, all of it gorgeous, and you get your pick of what is on hand. The contact info is on the website.

If you want a few more pictures of the gun, send me a Private Message email and I'll fire up the camera. Let me know what views you want.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, look at it this way. Most longhunters and colonists probably never owned more than two guns concurrently in their lives. They probably had a back-up and hand-me-downs for the family, but they wouldn't have had a rack of mostly unused 'collectables." You can only carry one at a time. Make that one a nice one.

Use what you have until you can swing what you want. I went out and bought the cheapest smoothbore I could find before I ordered my custom Bess just to be sure I could live with a smooth ball's limitations. That little, cheap New Englander kit is still one of my favorites and I sold the Bess to fund my current project. A nice gun is an investment, but a "beater" is better than just wishin.

Figure a 20% cost overrun (boats, guns, homes, etc. ALL have 20% cost overruns. It's a natural law). Also figure 30% time overrun. Save up 60% of what you'll need and then get serious. Talk to a bunch of gunsmiths before you commit. It will take 6 to 18 months from the time of your order to delivery, longer for some of the popular smiths.

A work of art is a joy forever. Certainly worth some scrimping and saving.

 

[Rat]

Unless you are an experienced builder, be really careful about building the rifle yourself.

I USED to think I was good at that type of thing, got a "kit" from TOW, screwed up the stock, and almost wound up with a forgotton pile of parts in my closet. Lucky for me, a builder let me send the mess to him, and he made me a very nice rifle.

I have a friend who just kept plugging ahead and finished his project. He wound up "giving the piece of crap" (his words) away.

A rifle or smoothbore made by an experienced maker is more than worth every cent spent on it. Getting something "in the white" is the furthest I'd go to save any money. Indeed, $1500 will get you a fantastic hand built long-arm. It's the carving, engraving and that sort of stuff that will take you up into the $2-$3000 range. A swamped barrel is worth every extra cent by the way.

Rat