CVA model

[Walker357]

In 1978 I purchased a 45 cal CVA kit from TOW. The box said "Mountain Rifle", it has brass furniture, one wedge pin and does NOT say made in USA anywhere on it. Recently purchased a not very used 50 cal CVA. Have only shot it 3 times. It has iron butt plate and trigger guard, brass patch box, fore end cap of unknown metal, two wedge pins and also does not say made in USA on it. Does have cheek piece on stock. I've been looking on web and cannot tell if this is a Mounain Rifle or a Hawken. Did mountain rifles have different number of wedge pins depending on cal? Not a big problem cause I'm going to keep it and shoot it, just curious. Sorry, not equiped to provide pictures.

 

[Dave K]

The double keyed barrel sounds like a Mountain Rifle to me. I am not sure what the other gun is. I know you said you can't post pictures, but that is as good as I can get from what I see.

 

[rafterob]

The double key and cheek piece definitely is a Mountain rifle. The trigger guard and butt plate should be steel -not iron. Yours sounds like mine and has a brass patch box. It seems like most of them have the German silver patchbox. I kinda remember one of my group of friends that bought a "Mountain rifle" about that same time period, maybe 1976 and I know his was basically the hawken also-but in .50 caliber. At that time, at least where I lived, the .45 was the most available caliber and then they started marketing .50 calibers. CVA tried a lot of different marketing variations, so probably not uncommon to find limited numbers of not-so-well-known models. I do know that since I got back into the sport 5 years ago, I have never encountered anyone with a "Mountain Rifle" that was anything but the 2 wedge pin model.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

CVA made a lot of models. Some were very limited production runs and are quite rare. For instance the Zuoave they sold for one or two years, the Prospector pistol. I understand that a few never even made it to the catalogues. When some models first started, I think they were limited trials and used parts already in use on other models. As said above a brass patchbox would be rare, same for the trigger guard.

 

[buford87]

I have a CVA Mountain Rifle I built from a kit which has a steel butt plate steel trigger guard brass patch box two barrel wedges and pewter? nose cap also no markings on the barrel whatsoever not even the caliber stamp. I know it is a CVA because that is what was on the box and all the papers in the box......watch yer top knot...............

 

[Trot]

CVA made the Frontier rifle at the same time as the Mountain rifle. The Frontier had a shorter barrel, one barrel wedge, brass trim and no patch box. Maybe you got a Frontier rifle in a Mountain rifle box.

 

[Walks Alone]

The 1978 kit is conflicting statements since it is not a "Mountain Rifle". 45 caliber MR's had browned steel furiture, pewter nose cap, German silver patch box/wedge plates/front sight, two barrel wedges, 32" barrel and a maple stock.

In 1978 CVA only offered the Mountain rifle, the redesigned Kentucky rifle (they were redesigned in 1975) and there might have been the earliest of the Frontier rifles available. The latter is probably what your 1978 kit is.

The Frontier had blued steel, all furniture was brass, one barrel wedge, 28" barrel and a hardwood stock.

Your 50 would be a Mountain rifle. No other CVA rifles had 2 barrel wedges.

No doubt transitional firearms were possible as CVA tried to find their nitch in the muzzleloader world, but based on your descriptions I think you have a 45 cal Frontier and a 50 cal Mountain Rifle.

 

[Jumpshot]

I have a question: Why did they use pewter for the nosecap? Any particular reason?

 

[Zonie]

Pewter is very easy to cast in about whatever shape you want.
It doesn't tarnish easily and is easy to clean.

It also is traditional in that many things in the early days were made from pewter including cups and plates.

Pewter is basically a tin allow with small amounts of antimony and sometimes copper in it.

Some of the modern "pewter" folks buy has large amounts of lead added making it unfit for food service.

 

[gordy]

Didn't CVA offer up a limited run of the Mountain rifle in the 1990s. The big thing with the first runs were they were made with USA barrels and built stateside ? As they ,CVA , changed over to in-line production they started selling "parts" guns to shed their inventory. I think they had been sold about three timeS AT THAT POINT .? :hmm:

 

[rafterob]

In 1978 CVA only offered the Mountain rifle, the redesigned Kentucky rifle (they were redesigned in 1975) and there might have been the earliest of the Frontier rifles available.

Well how come me and my buddies all had CVA "Hawkens" in 1975?

 

[Toomuch_36]

I have a question: Why did they use pewter for the nosecap? Any particular reason?

Purely cosmetic, for appearances.

Toomuch
..................
Shoot Flint

 

[Toomuch_36]

Trot & Walks Alone have it prety well pegged. The first mentioned rifle wha likely packaged in the wrong box.
Since this would be a very early Frontier, the appropriate boxes may not have come back from the printer yet.

Toomuch
..............
Shoot Flint

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have right here in my hands three CVA Catalogues. 1979, 1982 and 1984. The 1979 cat lists only the Mountain Rifle, The Fronier Rifle and the Kentucky Rifle (2 piece stock) You could also buy their barrels separate from the guns.

In 1982, they had the Mountain Rifle, Hawken, Kentucky and Frontier Rifle.

The Hawken Rifle Patch box looks exactly like the one on the Mountain Rifle, except in brass. The trigger gurads are differently shaped, but might have been interchangeable.

By 1984, they offerred the Squirrel Rifle, Double Shotgun, Blunderbus, Pa Long Rifle, Kentucky Rifle, Mountain Rifle, Hawken Rifle and Frontier Rifle. (Along with about 18 different pistols.)

In 1979, the Mtn Rifle was available in 45, 50, 54 and 58 cals. In 1982 it was only in 50, 54 and 58 cals. In 1982, the Hawken is listed as just 50 and 54. I have a 1981 Cat somewhere, just couldn't find it today.

According to the 1979 Cat, the Frontier rifle was available in 45 & 50 cal. By 1982 the 45 cal was only available in the perc kit.

 

[Walks Alone]

In 1978 CVA only offered the Mountain rifle, the redesigned Kentucky rifle (they were redesigned in 1975) and there might have been the earliest of the Frontier rifles available.

Well how come me and my buddies all had CVA "Hawkens" in 1975?

You didn't. According to their catalogs their CVA Hawken model didn't come along until the very early 80's.

CVA's 1975 catalog contents...

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Incidentally, the 1979 Catelogue lists the "NEW CVA Frontier Rifle" So I figure they may have begun production in 1978 for sale as a new model in the 1979 cat.

 

[Walks Alone]

I have right here in my hands three CVA Catalogues. 1979, 1982 and 1984.

And I have catalogs from 1972, 1974, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1989, the flyer/price list for their custom Mauser rifle kit and several years of wholesale price lists, parts price lists, credit apps, order forms, announcement letters, etc in hand, with more CVA (and TC) catalogs/paperwork lost somewhere out in storage.

As we've learned, CVA's catalogs don't always set the exact year a new model or model changes came along since they may have been released sometime during the year between new catalogs. Even so, it's the best source we have for now to speculate as close as we can from. FWIW, I also learned years ago that asking CVA themselves got you conflicting answers from the different people talked to (even employee's that had been there from the start). So they don't know from memory. Previous owners sometimes cloud the issue as well by making statements based on memory instead of dated sales receipts. So we speculate the best we can for now.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

CVA had an unbelievable merri go round of models over the years. Some would be available for a year or two and then disappear and some pretty much lasted most of the life of the company until the bankruptcy. I know that I remember a single barrel muzzleloader shotgun, but it isn't in my catelogues.

 

[Walks Alone]

The mid to late 80's was CVA's hayday for models for sure, and they did have a bunch of them. Early on it was all about the pistols, then they got heavy into the rifles. They had the single barrel Trapper shotgun in the late 80's, a 12 gauge that also had a 50 caliber percussion barrel available for it as an add on. They made the Stagecoach and Frontier double barreled shotguns in the early 70's, dropped them the mid 70's, then added the Brittany .410 double in the late 80's. The Brittany and their Mauser bolt action rifle kit might have been the start of the trend to get into the more modern market and away from the traditional market. Santa Barbara made the Mauser rifle kits for them, the same company who made their black powder revolvers and at least some of their tradtional pistols.

 

[rafterob]

You know-Maybe they were not CVA, although I am pretty sure they were. I do know they were Spanish made, Jukar, Kits in .45. The same rifles imported by CVA later. I also had the Philadelphia derringer and a Kentucky pistol in flintlock, both kits. I do know for a fact the Kentucky was a cva-the derringer I don't recall. You could buy quite a few kit guns from various makers back then.