CVA Mountain Rifle Catalog Specs

[Walks Alone]

Here’s a start at clearing up some of the hearsay and speculation and memory errors on the early CVA Mountain rifles. These specifications are taken right from early CVA product catalogs and ads that I have in my possession or have photos of. So I suggest that they can be considered as printed documentation that approximates the way it really was. The ads included at the bottom are just for interest.

Per 1975 CVA Catalog:
No Mountain Rifle are offered yet by CVA.

Per 1977 CVA Catalog:
Mountain Rifle Models:
KA715 45 cal percussion kit $109.95
KA716 50 cal percussion kit $109.95

PR405 45 cal percussion rifle $159.95
PR406 50 cal percussion rifle $159.95

Specifications
Made in the USA
Lock: Engraved percussion style ”“ adjustable sear engagement ”“ fly and bridle.
Stock: American maple with fully formed cheekpiece.
Barrel: 45 or 50 cal ”“ 32” octagon ”“ 15/16” across the flats ”“ hooked breech with two barrel tenons ”“ rifled 1 turn in 66” for patched ball accuracy.
Triggers: Double set, will fire both set and unset.
Sights: German silver blade front ”“ screw adjustable dovetail rear.
Finnish: Rich brown steel on finished rifle ”“ German silver patchbox and wedge plates ”“ plus pewter-type nose cap.
Accessories: Stainless steel nipple ”“ hardwood ramrod ”“ cleaning jag
Overall Length: 48”
Weight: 8 lbs.

ID Notes: Made in USA marked barrels; patchbox installed with 4 screws; thimbles are hexagon; hardwood ramrod has pewter-type ends.

There are no Big Bore MR’s listed in this catalog.


Per 1979 CVA Catalog:
Mountain Rifle Models:
KA715 45 cal perc kit $139.95
KA717 45 cal flint kit $149.95
KA716 50 cal perc kit $139.95
KA718 50 cal flint kit $149.95

PR405 45 cal perc rifle $199.95
FR507 45 cal flint rifle $209.95
PR406 50 cal perc rifle $199.95
FR508 50 cal flint rifle $209.95

Specifications
Lock: Colorcase hardened, engraved percussion and flintlock style; adjustable sear engagement; bridle and fly in tumbler; authentic V-type mainspring.
Stock: American maple with fully formed cheekpiece.
Barrel: 45 or 50 cal; 32” octagon; 15/16” across the flats; hooked breech with two barrel tenons; rifled 1 turn in 66” for patched ball accuracy; authentic round thimbles; especially smooth rifling for fast break-in..
Triggers: Double set, will fire both set and unset.
Sights: German silver blade front; screw adjustable dovetail rear.
Finnish: Rich brown steel on finished rifle; German silver patchbox and wedge plates; authentic pewter-type nose cap.
Accessories: Stainless steel nipple; hardwood ramrod with brass tips; cleaning jag.
Overall Length: 48”
Weight: 7 lbs. 14 ounces.

ID Notes: Patchbox installed with 2 screws; thimbles are now round; hardwood ramrod has brass ends.

Big Bore M. R. Models: PR407 54 perc rifle $199.95
PR408 58 perc rifle $199.95
KA729 54 perc kit $139.95
KA730 58 perc kit $139.95

Same details as Mountain Rifle above, except .54 and .58 cal. Perc style; has no patchbox; weighs 8 pounds 2 ounces.


Per 1981 CVA Ad:
Percussion MR kits sell for $167.95, and flint kits for $249.95.


Per 1989 CVA Catalog:
MR still a catalog item.


Per 1980 DGW Catalog:

Percussion CVA MR sells for $185.00 and TC Hawken sells for $205.00

CVA MR barrels "...The land to land measurement is .492 while the groove to groove is .507 on the .50 caliber whereas on the .45 caliber, the land to land is .442 and the groove to groove is .460..."

Walks Alone

 

[Walks Alone]

Some speculation and hearsay”¦.

Hearsay: Supposedly the first USA MR’s were released for sale sometime in 1976.
The Made in USA MR’s, herein referred to as Model 1 for simplicity, is the first firearm advertised in the 1977 catalog (copywrited 1976), but with no “splash” that it is a new model for them. That sort of supports that if there was a 1976 catalog it may have included the “new” MR in it.

Hearsay: Some say the ”˜USA’ production barrels came from Douglas ”“ some say from Sharon.
If from either of these or any other premium barrel maker you’d think CVA would have mentioned it in the catalog since they did proudly make a big deal in the 1977 catalog that these first MR’s were “Made in the USA”. As far as I know, proof has still not been made available that the production MR’s had premium barrels (and so it remains hearsay in my mind).

Hearsay: The Spanish barrels supposedly came from Ardesa and they supposedly started offering these Model 2 MR’s sometime in 1978.
The Spanish barreled version that replaced the Model 1, herein referred to as Model 2, is in the 1979 catalog, but there is no mention of who made the barrels or even that they were made in Spain. Only a 1978 catalog will confirm if they were offered before 1979.

Comment on the identification between models: The barrel is the heart of the rifles, and either is or is not marked with “Made in USA”. So it’s an easy identifier. But because of changes in the design or materials of some parts when the transition was made from Model 1 to Model 2, there are other parts that can generally also be used as an identification guide. I suggest generally because barrels and other parts get moved from firearm to firearm by owners or smiths, plus it is possible that there were transition examples made with both Model 1 & 2 parts at the CVA factory. Some of these parts are easy to tell apart at a glance, some others that have been suggested might require having both examples in hand to tell them apart. Anyway, the known parts identifiable at a glance are:

Model 1: Made in USA marked barrel; 4-screw patchbox; hexagon thimbles; pewter ramrod ends.
Model 2: 2-screw patchbox; round thimbles; brass ramrod ends.

Walks Alone

 

[Walks Alone]

OK folks... please fire away with any documentation you can add, comments on hearsay/speculations, thoughts, ideas, etc, etc, etc. All of it will hopefully help us better know what the history of the early MR's was.

:thumbsup:

 

[Pork Chop]

One of my MRs is clearly a production unit while that the other is a kit. Both barrels are blued...

 

[necchi]

Thanks for the work, I'll keep an eye out now for a 76 & 78 catalog.

Mine has all the ear marks of the 1st Model,,
My barrel is "in the white" ??

There is a noted differance in the color's,,pewter-type nose cap,,and the German silver parts. I thank you for that also, I'm going to try to find a GS nose cap too match the other trim and brown the barrel. I'd actually like all iron trim (browned) but that may take a bit of time,,esp-patchbox/buttplate.

 

[Walks Alone]

Prok Chop,
Both catalogs state the "furniture" as browned steel in their little story comparing their rifles to the originals, but make no reference to the finish on their barrels. My MR's barrel is also blued.
WA

 

[mykeal]

1983 catalog:

Classic Mountain Rifle:
Lock: Plate: color case-hardened and engraved; internal features: bridle, fly, screw-adjustable sear engagement, authentic v-type mainspring.
Stock: select hardwood with fully-formed beavertail cheekpiece.
Barrel: 32" octagonal, 15/16" across flats; hooked breech for easy take down and cleaning; Rifling: one turn in 66", eight lands, deep grooves.
Triggers: double set (will fire set or unset)
Front sight: dovetail, German silver blade.
Rear sight: screw-adjustable, open dovetail.
Finish: German silver wedge plates and patchbox; pewter-type nose cap.
Accessories: stainless steel nipple or flash hole liner; hardwood ramrod with brass tips; brass cleaning jag.
Length (overall): 48"
Weight: 7 lbs., 14 oz.
PR406: .50 caliber percussion rifle $284.95
FR508: .50 caliber flintlock rifle $294.95
KA716: .50 caliber percussion kit $189.95
KA 718: .50 caliber flintlock kit $199.95

Big Bore Mountain Rifle:
Note: identical to the Mountain Rifle specifications above with the following exceptions:
Stock: unadorned wider select hardwood with fully-formed beavertail cheekpiece
Barrel: 1" across the flats and .58 caliber is rifled one turn in 72"
Weight: 8 lbs., 2 oz.
PR407: .54 caliber percussion rifle $294.95
KA729: .54 caliber percussion kit $209.95
KA730: .58 caliber percussion kit $209.95

The pictures show browned barrel, trigger guard and round ramrod thimbles. The butt plate is not visible.

 

[tiger955]

I have one I bought at a gun show a few years ago... It is a 54 cal cap gun with a browned barrel, maple stock, case colored lock, pewter nose cap, silver front blade, no patchbox, steel wedges, wedge plates are brass, the rest of the hardware is browned steel. Serial # is 0000181. I have no idea when it was made, or if factory or kit. I know it is a great shooter and not fussy at all about what load I put in it. I have tried to find some info on the age or origin of it but no luck so far.

 

[dave payne]

well gentleman...my mountain rifle does not quite fit either model you describe but has some elements of each
I bought my 50 cal flintlock MR kit in june of '79....barrel does NOT say made in USA...patchbox is 2 screw...thimbles are hexagon...and has pewter ends on ramrod

 

[Walks Alone]

mykeal,
Thank you kindly for including the 1983 catalog specs. Would be nice to have them for all of the CVA catalogs from 1976 (to see if the MR's are in it), 1978 to see which model MR was offered that year, to whatever the last year was they offered the MR's.


tiger955,
Your rifle is a Big Bore MR as referred to near the end in the 1979 catalog above (either PR407 or KA729). What year it was made I have no idea, but probably 1979 or later. The wedge plates could be German silver and not brass.

hdgarfield,
Great information to get, thanks. Could easily be one of those "transitional rifles" I referred to above from the factory with parts from both models. Sounds like everything is right on your rifle for a second model MR except the thimbles and ramrod ends.

WA

 

[MikeChapin]

Thanks for the research. I seem to remember that magazine advertisements for the early Mountain Rifles said they had a match barrel.

A few years ago a person who was familiar with the design phase of the Mountain Rifle said the "Made in USA" barrels were Douglas barrels. I think it was on this forum that he posted the chronology. Don't know if it would be in the archives or not.

I think the confusion comes from the early T/C Hawkens had Sharon barrels for the first year or two before T/C started doing their own. Roundball would know if this is true or not.

 

[Walks Alone]

Hey Mike,

I have most of the MR "threads" I've found so far in the archives here saved as doc files... and mostly they are hearsay and speculation. But could you be referring to Steve Chapman's (longball58) excellent thread posted on this forum early last year?

One of those "he was there" things and in his opinion none of the production MR's had Douglas barrels. Personally I'm confident in what Steve offered. Please use the link below to read what he had to say, it is very informative, and with pictures.

CVA Mtn Rifle - a little history

My intent behind this thread was to get actual documentation posted, so I'd love to see any of the references mentioned in any of these old MR threads copied verbatum here. The article in the June 1976 Muzzle Blasts is one that comes to mind.

 

[MikeChapin]

...
My intent behind this thread was to get actual documentation posted, so I'd love to see any of the references mentioned in any of these old MR threads copied verbatum here. The article in the June 1976 Muzzle Blasts is one that comes to mind.

And a great job you did! :thumbsup:

I do know the USA barrel on my old Mountain Rifle has been winning stuff for 30 years or so and still going strong. It does crud up faster than my other rifles but that may be more a factor of the abuse it got early on when I was starting out in this stuff.

I have heard that Deer Creek is using the old Douglas rifling machines for making the barrels on their copy of the Mountain Rifle.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think the confusion comes from the early T/C Hawkens had Sharon barrels for the first year or two before T/C started doing their own. Roundball would know if this is true or not.

I think you may have just added to the confusion Mike. I have the 2nd edition Black Powder Gun Digest published in 1977 which includes an interview with Warren Center. He states that first year T/C Hawkens had Douglas barrels, not Sharon. Sharon never was a high volume production barrel maker and thus would be an unlikely source of barrels for a mass produced rifle. Those Douglas barrels were round blanks, T/C milled the flats and finished them in house so it really was not a great jump to begin making their own barrels from bar stock.

 

[Walks Alone]

I really don't think adding to the confusion is intentional - just folks passing on what has been passed on before that they overheard, or a glitch in their memory. Hearsay and speculation are just that no matter how many times they get passed on. The memory ones get the most far fetched though... like the folks who have had their 'USA' MR's or TC Hawken's since many years before either CVA or TC even existed. I'm not sure what to think about the gent who says his 'USA' MR is 32 caliber. Anyway, that's why it's all a problem without documentation and why I started this thread, to finally get something out there that can be backed up in print at least.

Thanks for the reference you gave re the TC's - that too has been speculated to death.
:thumbsup:

 

[MikeChapin]

I think the confusion comes from the early T/C Hawkens had Sharon barrels for the first year or two before T/C started doing their own. Roundball would know if this is true or not.

I think you may have just added to the confusion Mike. I have the 2nd edition Black Powder Gun Digest published in 1977 which includes an interview with Warren Center. He states that first year T/C Hawkens had Douglas barrels, not Sharon. Sharon never was a high volume production barrel maker and thus would be an unlikely source of barrels for a mass produced rifle. Those Douglas barrels were round blanks, T/C milled the flats and finished them in house so it really was not a great jump to begin making their own barrels from bar stock.

That's a lot more definitive than my sources which was stuff I have heard over the years. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Oh I know, there is a lot of rumor and speculation. And really, it is not as if Douglas was a fantastic barrel, it was just one of the few mass produced muzzleloader barrels available at the time and so was often used on some fine rifles. I built a couple of rifles with Douglas barrels and a couple with the much cheaper Numrich barrels and the Numrichs were much more accurate.
But getting back to the CVA's, it sounds like the mark "made in the USA" on the barrel does not necessarily mean the barrel and other parts were made in the USA. Sort of like "American" automobiles made with parts from all over the globe and just assembled in Detroit.

 

[rafterob]

I had bought what was sold as a CVA mountain rifle kit stock and hardware,unfinished. It came with German silver nosepiece,brass 2 screw patchbox and brass escutcheons. I bought all the rest of the parts and Barrel from Deer creek. After reading these posts on the CVA Mountain Rifle, I am thinking what I got was the Traditions later version that they discontinued also. Obviously the same design-engineering as the CVA because all parts fit flawlessly. Or did some CVA's come with brass hardware?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have a few old CVA Catelogues here on my desk.
1979, 1982 and 1984.


1979 says the BIG Bore MR is new. 1 inch 54 or 58 inch barrel (perc only) Is says an American Maple stock, but nothing about US made parts. The big bore had no patch box.

Likewise the 1982 cat says nothing about American made. Stocks are now "select hardwood" The Mountain pistol is in this cat.

the 1984 also says nothing about American made. the rifle was apparently no longer offerred in 45 cal. and the finished big bore only came in 54 cal, although a 58 kit was offerred.
(the CVA shotgun and blunderbuss were new that year as were the Pioneer pistol in 32 and the prospector pistol in 44 cal.)
All three cats says the finished gun comes with a browned steel barrel.

If someone wants to put together a reference site, I would scan my catelogues and e-mail them. Same for my 1979 Navy Arms cat and TC Cat nos 4 and 11. I think such a reference site would be of alot of help to folks.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Ghetto gun, CVa operated much like the car companies. a water pump may fit all v6's and v8s from 1982 to 1994. Cva was similar. some locks and thimbles etc were common to a number of models and for several years. Traditions had guns coming from the same parts sources as cva and even from the same production facilities sO YES ALOT OF PARTS are the same from CVA and Traditions and from model to model. My first CVA kit, was purchased in 1972 and came as a bunch of parts in a cloth bag. I paid $32. for a Kentucky pistol kit at Two Guys' discount store near Whitehall PA.