CVA Percussion Hawkens...

[Anonym]

Hello all. I'm new to the forums but have been shooting muzzleloaders to hunt with since 13 years old (19 years ago). My first rifle was a CVA Hunter Hawken 50 cal. that shot roundball exceptionally well and took many deer. After being out of the country for a few years, I returned home to quite the mess as I didn't prepare it properly for that long of a time in storage. The stock has several small cracks in the buttstock area, so I refinished the stock and cleaned up the barrel and "retired" it with a cold blue.

That was about 6 years ago, and I've been hunting successfully with my Encore ML since, but I've still got an itch for PRB and a sidelock. I recently picked up a CVA St Louis Hawken 50 cal. that needs attention, so I'm thinking between the two, I'll have something that looks good and will shoot fine. I've got a project for the left-over parts as well! I've got a few questions that I need help with to get everything done that I want to do.

Question #1: I haven't received the St Louis Hawken yet, but it appears to be in good overall condition and has a nice looking WALNUT stock! I didn't know CVA to ever use walnut as most I've seen have the orange finish over maple or birch. I will verify the type of wood once it arrives, but do any of you know if CVA ever had a Hawken in walnut? My plan is to combine the best parts from both rifles and have a nice St Louis Hawken complete rifle.

Question #2: The extra lock, trigger, barrel and harware are going to go towards a project gun. I'm hoping to make a short "backpacker" rifle to pack camping or possibly bowhunting. I understand the limitations of a short barreled black powder gun and realize it will probably be a 30-50 yard gun, but are there other considerations to be made if I chop down the barrel to minimum length (16")? What powder type and load should I start with to keep the powder burning in the barrel and the ball going down range? I was thinking around 60 grains. Do I need FFF powder to burn more quickly?

Thanks for helping a newbie out. Just looking for some information and advice. Last resort would be a 12" barreled 50 cal pistol to pack around, but not sure if the 1:48 twist would be enough for that short of a barrel. Anyone ever play around with shorter barrels?

Thanks in advance,
Anonym

 

[cowpoke1955]

Welcome to the forum. All the ads I've ever seen for CVA has always said hardwood stock. Never seen a walnut or maple. It might be walnut stained. I have a few friends that have the CVA Hawkens and they seem to be a good shooter. The 16" barrel sounds really short for black powder. I would think it would be less accurate and less effective. Others should chim in with more details. Good luck.

 

[boar]

Twist will be wrong. TC White MT has I think a I-22 Twist. You would be better of to get a CVA Bobcat.6lbs. Be great for what you want. If the plastic stock bothers you put a wood one on it. All my Spanish stocks are Beechwood. I call them Spanish Oak. It could be redone or stained. Dilly

 

[Anonym]

Thanks for the responses. Twist rate was one of the things I was worried about, but wasn't sure how critical it was since a buddy shoots a short barreled smooth bore with PRBs very effectively.

More replies are welcomed!

Here is a picture of the stock that I received. Sure looks like walnut from the picture given the deep grain and dark stain (not the orangish stuff typically used), but guess I'll have to wait and see.

Stock

Anonym

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Some CVA Mountain Rifles had maple stocks. Your rifle looks like an older one and it does look like walnut. I seem to recall a model from quite a while back that did have a walnut stock.

I would think long and hard before bobbing the barrel. You don't save that much weight, you lose a significant amount of velocity, and you shorten your sighting radius. Taken together the rifle loses way more effectiveness than the weight savings can begin to compensate you for. Also, most states have minimum barrel length requirements fo muzzleloading hunting rifles.

 

[Anonym]

I should probably clarify a bit. I am not wanting to bob the barrel on the Hawken. I want a hunting rifle as close to the original CVA St Louis Hawken as I can get. The "bobbing" comes from the want of piecing together a second firearm (project) that is packable and would serve as a last-ditch option while camping/backpacking/bowhunting. Once I get the St Louis Hawken together, I will have the majority of a second rifle (minus a stock that is usable as-is, ramrod thimble, and sights). Thought it would be a fun project to play around with and have actually started blocking a chunk of red elm for a possible pistol grip.

The modified firearm would would obviously abide all federal regulations as far as length goes. The only restrictions regarding a percussion muzzleloader for hunting purposes in my state (Indiana) is that the projectile has to be at least 42 caliber (which the 50 cal meets) and pistols have to be 50 cal or bigger with at least a 12" barrel.

Thanks again for the input. I'm injoying this site very much!

Anonym

 

[PreglerD]

Am I wrong, but the CVA rifles look a bit like Traditions or Ardesa rifles to me!

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[Kentuckywindage]

The newer model st. louis hawken did have a walnut stock. They had some excellent looking figure in them.

 

[Zonie]

CVA sidelock rifles were made by Ardesa for years.
Traditions is currently marketing some of the same models in the U.S.

That rifle that is in the link shows the hammer to be WAY out of alignment with the nipple.
Hopefully this is just an optical illusion. If not, some serious hammer bending will be in order.

 

Anonym,
16" is pretty short. I have a full stock with a 20" barrel and haven't had any trouble taking several deer out to 60-70 yards. I use 75 grains of FFF goex and it is very accurate and more than powerful enough.
Mark

 

[Anonym]

Good eye! Yes, this is a project in itself. The drum was removed and is not currently seated in the barrel. The story on the rifle was that it wasn't shot much at all but had a misfire and stuck in a closet, loaded, for several years. :shake: I may be using the barrel off of my Hunter-Hawken unless I can get this one cleaned up well enough.

The guy I purchased it from removed the drum and the stuck round, but hasn't done anything else as far as clean-up goes. The stock looks to be in excellent condition, and it may only require me to simply swap out barrels and give the stock a good cleaning to have a shootable rifle. Probably paid too much for a neglected rifle, but being that it wasn't shot much and only neglected once (for a long time!), then I might not be too bad off. Supposedly the rifling is excellent and deep but with a layer of thin rust covering that should wire brush out.

I've added the other pictures that I have of the rifle to my gallery. One will show the breech area with the drum partially screwed in.

Anonym

 

[nw_hunter]

I had one of the early CVA Mt Rifles, and it had a maple stock. Kick myself for ever getting rid of that one

 

[tg]

Generaly the shorter barrels use a faster twist when you are somewhere betwen a pistol length and a short rifle the 1/48 will likely work but nay be rather particular about the load, some of the pistol makers used to use chunks of 1/48 rifle barrels and we got them to shoot pretty good by loading them up pretty hot for a pistol.

 

[Rogue River]

I recently bought 2 old hawkens kits still in the original box that have walnut stocks and it is stated on the outside of the boxes Walnut stock. Both boxes had a date of 1981 stamped on the booklets.

 

[tg]

I have stripped down a couple of the old CVA Kentucky rifle and the wood looked to be walnut it was not a light wood like maple or beech.

 

[Leatherbark]

I'll bet those two CVA Hawken kits both have a 1 inch 1/66 twist barrels........Bob

 

[Anonym]

Well, got it in last night and did some initial inspection. Stock is definitely Walnut and in fairly good condition. The metal to wood fit isn't the best, but it's good and solid and will work fine as a hunting rifle. A few dings here and there won't hurt anything.

The drum threads were cleaned out good an it now seats fine, but the nipple threads are shot as well as the nipple. They're cheap enough that I'll probably get a replacement drum and nipple for it.

The bore was pretty nasty, but doesn't look too bad on initial scrubbing. Has some rust, but little to no pitting. The rifling looks strong and is definitely a 1:48 twist. Would have rather had a slower twist, but it will work. There is a nasty layer of packed powder and rust down at the breech that I'm trying to remove and then I'll probably finish the bore by shooting w/ polishing compound on a few patches. Should be fine for what I want to do with it. Barrel is a SPAIN barrel, but that's ok too.

Other than the drum and nipple, I'm needing a few other parts to complete it. I've found some sights, ramrod, drum and nipple for it at Dixie Gun Works. I'll probably pick up some stuff to brown the steel again from them too. I'm needing a brass ramrod thimble and a front sling keeper to finish it off. Anyone have a source for these parts?

It'll take a little work, but I'm satisfied w/ my purchase.

Anonym

 

[Mulebrain]

Welcome aboard Hoosier!!

I am from Shirley Indiana originally, and most of my old family is from Leesville around Bedford.

You can get many parts for that gun, from other Hoosiers!

Deer Creek Products
Waldron, IN
765 525-9595

 

[Anonym]

Hey Mule Brain! Not really sure where Shirley is, but I'm familiar with Bedford enough. I live down in the French Lick area. Thanks for the number! I'll have to give them a call.

Anonym

 

[mykeal]

Shirley is halfway between Indianapolis and Richmond, about 7 miles north of US Rt 40.