CVA Squirrel rifle nipple problem

[Jumpshot]

I recently ordered two nipples from Track for my Squirrel rifle to experiment with, a #11 Hot Shot and a musket cap nipple. I made sure they were both 6-1mm to fit CVA. I received them and both are labeled as being for CVA.

But neither of them fit in the drum. I can just barely get the threads started and that's it. Seems they're too big.

Does anyone know what thread size the hole in the drum might be? Did CVA use another size besides 6-1mm?

Some pictures below. On the left is the original nipple, on the right is the Hot Shot.

 

[1sgt]

The 6-1 mm should be correct for CVA. Your pictures clearly show the size difference. The new nipple looks more like 1/4 - 28. Do you have a Thompson Center rifle to check the new nipple in?

 

[chorizo]

It wouldn't be the first time somebody got mislabled nipples. I have received 6 x .75 and 1/4 x28 threaded nipples in place of 6 x1.0 .

I have a thread checker that I use now for just that reason.

The only company I have ALWAYS gotten them right were Treso

 

[SDSmlf]

If you have a micrometer or calipers measure the diameter of the threads on both. If not, a trip to a hardware store may solve the mystery. They should have one of those thread checking setups near where they sell nuts and bolts, to avoid the exact problem you are having.

 

[SDSmlf]

The only company I have ALWAYS gotten them right were Treso

Treso Ampco nipples are the only ones I will use anymore, particularly when shooting conicals. I can burn out the orifice in a Hot Shot stainless nipple in 30 to 40 shots, sometimes less if shooting heavy projectiles and charges. The Treso start with a smaller orifice (.028”) compared to the Hot Shots (~.035”) and wear much slower.

But be warned, some report that the Treso don’t work all that well with some subs because of the smaller orifice causing ignition issues. I don’t know, I have not tested the subs with them.

 

[chorizo]

My Triple 7 2f or 3f works fine with no issues.


Thread checker...I also got a M6 x 0.75 nut to check as the set doesn't have one


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L38BJD...aWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

 

[SDSmlf]

My Triple 7 2f or 3f works fine with no issues.

That’s one sub off the ignition issue list. Though the issue may just internet lore.

 

[chorizo]

That’s one sub off the ignition issue list. Though the issue may just internet lore.

I previously used RS Select without issue also.......Now I only use musket caps too.

 

[Jumpshot]

Do you have a Thompson Center rifle to check the new nipple in?

I have a Renegade but it's buried in storage and it will be a while before I have time to go dig it out.

I'll have to get one of those thread checkers.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I recently ordered two nipples from Track for my Squirrel rifle to experiment with, a #11 Hot Shot and a musket cap nipple. I made sure they were both 6-1mm to fit CVA. I received them and both are labeled as being for CVA.

But neither of them fit in the drum. I can just barely get the threads started and that's it. Seems they're too big.

Does anyone know what thread size the hole in the drum might be? Did CVA use another size besides 6-1mm?

Some pictures below. On the left is the original nipple, on the right is the Hot Shot.

View attachment 206098


View attachment 206099


View attachment 206100

I can see the difference in thread pitch between the two nipples. The one on the right appears to have a coarser thread pitch than your original nipple. You will be well served by measuring the threads. As previously suggested, the thread testers at the hardware store are good. So are the thread pitch gauges that will help to determine the thread pitch along with a micrometer to measure the diameter.

I am thinking that the nipple is 6mm by 0.75.

I went to the Deer Creek web site. I looked up the CVA/Traditions schematics for the squirrel rifle and the Mountain rifle. The part numbers are different for the nipples. The squirrel rifle has the part number 10401. The mountain rifle has the part number 10400. Needless to say, the Deer Creek catalog does not list those part numbers but they do have 6-.75 rifle nipples. (So does Track of the Wolf, but they are not identified as a CVA nipple or Traditions nipple.)

On the Deer Creek web site, nipples are identified as for the CVA Hawken or CVA Pistol.

When ordering, be sure to order the cone height and over all length the same as your original nipple.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

My Triple 7 2f or 3f works fine with no issues.


Thread checker...I also got a M6 x 0.75 nut to check as the set doesn't have one


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L38BJD...aWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

This nut an thread checker is the neatest thing I have seen. This could be real useful and save time and headaches.. Thanks for posting about this Chorizo ..... I'll buy one of these.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Boomerang]

I recently ordered two nipples from Track for my Squirrel rifle to experiment with, a #11 Hot Shot and a musket cap nipple. I made sure they were both 6-1mm to fit CVA. I received them and both are labeled as being for CVA.

But neither of them fit in the drum. I can just barely get the threads started and that's it. Seems they're too big.

Does anyone know what thread size the hole in the drum might be? Did CVA use another size besides 6-1mm?

Some pictures below. On the left is the original nipple, on the right is the Hot Shot.

View attachment 206098


View attachment 206099


View attachment 206100

That looks like a 1/4-20 to me on the Hot Shot nipple.

 

[user 34300]

If you like to work on guns and other mechanical things you need to own a thread pitch gauge and a caliper.

Once you know the pitch and major diameter you can look it up.

For an internal thread measure the minor diameter. Then thread in a dowel and measure the pitch off that.

https://www.custompartnet.com/tap-size-chart
I only have the TPI type of gauges. This one looks great I will buy one myself.

https://www.amazon.com/ChgImposs-Im...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138871841241&psc=1
Harbor freight has usable digital calibers very cheap.

 

[kelljp]

My Triple 7 2f or 3f works fine with no issues.


Thread checker...I also got a M6 x 0.75 nut to check as the set doesn't have one


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L38BJD...aWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

Best thing I've seen since sliced bread!

 

[Jumpshot]

I have a couple of calipers but I need that thread checker.

Track wants me to return those two for exchange or refund. Almost seems more trouble than it's worth.

They told me the Hot Shot has a C engraved on one of the flats to indicate a 6-1mm thread. The machining and engraving the C are done in one step so there won't be a C on the wrong nipple. It has the C but it still doesn't fit in the drum.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That's because you need a 6-.75 mm threads. But do measure the pitch of your original threads.

 

[SDSmlf]

That's because you need a 6-.75 mm threads. But do measure the pitch of your original threads.

OP says they have a CVA Squirrel Rifle and it should take a 6x1mm nipple, just like most of the other Spanish made guns do. Italian made Lyman and Investarm guns are threaded for a 6x.75 mm nipple. At least that is what I used.

Either the OP has a ‘unique’ CVA, doesn’t have a CVA or CVA drum on their gun, there was a mixup and TOW (or possible return, as I believe the nipples I purchased from track came a zip lock bag) or there was a mixup at the nipple manufacturer.

Just for reference from TOW website

 

[Grenadier1758]

@SDSmlf, Deer Creek lists two different part numbers in the schematic diagrams for nipples for CVA rifles. Jumpshot has a CVA rifle that was built with a 6-.75 threaded nipple. No drum replacement with a non standard replacement drum. Deer Creek should know.

I can see the difference in thread pitch between the two nipples. The one on the right appears to have a coarser thread pitch than your original nipple. You will be well served by measuring the threads. As previously suggested, the thread testers at the hardware store are good. So are the thread pitch gauges that will help to determine the thread pitch along with a micrometer to measure the diameter.

I am thinking that the nipple is 6mm by 0.75.

I went to the Deer Creek web site. I looked up the CVA/Traditions schematics for the squirrel rifle and the Mountain rifle. The part numbers are different for the nipples. The squirrel rifle has the part number 10401. The mountain rifle has the part number 10400. Needless to say, the Deer Creek catalog does not list those part numbers but they do have 6-.75 rifle nipples. (So does Track of the Wolf, but they are not identified as a CVA nipple or Traditions nipple.)

On the Deer Creek web site, nipples are identified as for the CVA Hawken or CVA Pistol.

When ordering, be sure to order the cone height and over all length the same as your original nipple.

I also verified that Track of the Wolf lists only the 6-1.00mm thread pitch nipples for the CVA rifles and does not list any 6-.75 nipples for any CVA (or Traditions) rifles. I believe this is an oversight in the Track of the Wolf Catalog. Now @Jumpshot has the correctly fitting nipple for his rifle, but he wants to experiment with a hotter firing Hot Shot nipple or a musket sized nipple. He should measure the thread pitch of the nipple that fits and order the nipple that matches that thread pitch, cone height, over-all length and thread journal length. Track does list Hot Shot Nipples with the 6-.75 thread pitch, just not identified as fitting a CVA Squirrel Rifle. Lets measure the nipple that fits and order the nipple that fits. Obviously a 6-1.00 doesn't fit.

 

[SDSmlf]

@SDSmlf, Deer Creek lists two different part numbers in the schematic diagrams for nipples for CVA rifles. Jumpshot has a CVA rifle that was built with a 6-.75 threaded nipple. No drum replacement with a non standard replacement drum. Deer Creek should know.

I also verified that Track of the Wolf lists only the 6-1.00mm thread pitch nipples for the CVA rifles and does not list any 6-.75 nipples for any CVA (or Traditions) rifles. I believe this is an oversight in the Track of the Wolf Catalog. Now @Jumpshot has the correctly fitting nipple for his rifle, but he wants to experiment with a hotter firing Hot Shot nipple or a musket sized nipple. He should measure the thread pitch of the nipple that fits and order the nipple that matches that thread pitch, cone height, over-all length and thread journal length. Track does list Hot Shot Nipples with the 6-.75 thread pitch, just not identified as fitting a CVA Squirrel Rifle. Lets measure the nipple that fits and order the nipple that fits. Obviously a 6-1.00 doesn't fit.

Don’t doubt that you have a reference that CVA used a 6X.75 on some rifles, I just can’t seem to find any myself.

Checked Deer Creek and they do call out two part numbers for CVA nipples, with the 10400 called out for the Hawken and the 10401 called out on the Squirrel Rifle, Mountain Rifle and Kentucky Rifle to name a few. The only reference I found to nipple thread size on the Deer Creek website was in the General CVA instructions, 6x1mm, just like the printed copies I have.

I pulled a nipple from a 1980 or so CVA Kentucky Rifle I have, along with a 1988 CVA Frontier, and both had 6x1mm nipples, as did a Mendi (Spanish gunmaker that merged with Jukar in 1980). Just for giggles I tried swapping in a known 6x.75 and it was a NoGo.

Figure I’d check an old printed reference, one of Turner’s Dixie catalogs, although the oldest I have is from 1990 (Chuck Conners is on the cover) after the bride cleaned out some old stuff. They only call out 6x1mm nipples for CVA rifles, though they do call out 6x.75 mm for some Italian Colt and Remington pistols. If there is an oversight on the thread sizes, it has been an oversight for over 30 years.

Bottom line, I’m not convinced that the OP has a 6x.75 mm CVA factory installed nipple. Though the size of the nipple that fits could be easily measured to confirm what it is. But that hasn’t occurred yet.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree. At this point all we know is that the 6-1.00 does not fit. Deer Creek has schematic diagrams for CVA rifles with two different part numbers for CVA rifles. Deer Creek lists rifle nipples in 6-100 and 6-.75 but does not identify which rifles they are intended. The drawing shows the CVA/Traditions Hawken rifle with a 6-1.00 nipple. @SDSmlf has generic documentation for his CVA rifles for the nipples and they are 6-1.00. We need to wait until the correct nipple size is determined.