CVS .58 Mountain Rifle

[rodymartin]

I just aquired a CVA big bore Mountain rifle. Can anyone give me some info on this rifle. What is the best load?

 

[Rebel]

.54 or .58 cal? They have a 1-66" twist. All of the Mt. Rifles i had were very accurate. I would say 80-100 grs of powder and a patched round ball should be a fairly good place to start with either cal.

 

[fatboy]

I refit one of these for my friend and the last deer he shot he drilled it right through the head at 35 yds. his seams to be very accurate with 90 grains pwdr and rond ball for hunting .

 

[Rebel]

Guess i should have read the title of the post before replying. Then i would have known it was a .58 cal. ::

 

[cayugad]

I cut my black powder teeth on a .58 caliber CVA Mountain Rifle my friend owned. He shot only roundball and patch out of it. A very accurate rifle for shooting. The powder charge I do not remember. But I remember him doing some pretty fancy shooting with that rifle.

He cracked the stock because of loading it too hot or the wood was bad. Shame, he ended up selling it because of that reason...

Good luck with the rifle.

 

[rodymartin]

This One looks good but is not blued or browned. The barrel is dark gray that you get from a steel that is set around with out rusting. Stock is tiger striped it has the brass studs and a eagle on the side of the butstock.

 

[BS]

For a hunting gun, double the caliber. 58x2=116FF then it depends upon accuracy, add more, then try less. It will also depend on your ball size and patch. If I was a betting man, I would guess about 100 grains of FF.

BS
my web page

 

[[email protected]]

the rifle sure sound purty!!!! can ya post some pics??
I personally love the ole CVA Mountain rifle....cut my teeth on one....sure wish I still had it!
I hope ya can post pictures.......

***WV SCROUNGER ***

 

[merdean]

I have a CVA Big Bore Mt. Rifle in .54cal. I love it. It has been my faithful companion on a couple of hunts and is very accurate. My .54 likes several loads, some for target and some for hunting. It has a 1 in 66 twist but still shoots Maxi-Balls well enough to hunt. I use 100gr ffg behind that Maxi. Recoil is a little stiff but the Elk don't mind a bit. They just lay down and give up the ghost.
Congratulations on a great buy.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

For a hunting gun, double the caliber. 58x2=116FF then it depends upon accuracy, add more, then try less. It will also depend on your ball size and patch. If I was a betting man, I would guess about 100 grains of FF.

BS
my web page

I prefer NOT to use any of those "rules of thumb" when determining the powder charge. I think 116gr of FFg is a pretty stout charge.

But I'm just used to using 60gr charges with muskets and minies I guess. Basically I would start with 75gr of FFg and work up 5gr at a time to see where accuracy is best.

Are you using a .570 ball or a .562 ball? What patch thickness? What lube? All those factors are going to play a part in things.

And of course a conical projectile would change matters entirely. You'd need to start at about 50gr of FFg and work up from there 5gr at a time.

I think part of the "fun" about muzzleloading is getting to "play" with the loads to determine the best one for accuracy and the best for hunting. Hopefully they are both the same!

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[BS]

WV_Hillbilly,

If you don't like rules of thumb, well then do't use them!
A stout load is three times the diameter! My 72.cal at 225 grains of FF is a STOUT LOAD!

NO_BS
my web page

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

WV_Hillbilly,

If you don't like rules of thumb, well then do't use them!
A stout load is three times the diameter! My 72.cal at 225 grains of FF is a STOUT LOAD!

NO_BS
my web page

My remark wasn't intended as a "flame" towards you... But the tone of your reply seems to indicate that is how you viewed my comment. Perhaps I should have explained "the why"
to prevent any misinterpretation.

I don't use "rules of thumb" with muzzleloading, because any gun can be an "exception" to the rule. Sometimes the built-in margin of safety gets used up way too quickly. I've never lost a gun (or body part) to an overloaded gun yet, and I don't intend to either.

BTW, The maximum recommended charge weight for that .58 CVA is 120gr of FFg. If someone uses 116gr as a starting load (about 3.3% below maximum), it doesn't leave much room for "working the load up".

I sure hope you have a sturdy piece of .72caliber hardware as that 225gr FFg IS definitely a STOUT LOAD by anyone's measuring stick.

So tell me, what gun is it that you are using that can handle that kind of heavy charge? Is that with a round ball or conical (or maybe a shot load)?

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[BS]

WV_Hillbilly,

No flames taken, and some times I get carried away!

My 72cal barrel was made by Jerry Cunningham at Orion Barrels........and in my talking to him about maximum RB loads of how much powder to use, his answer was "pretty much what ever you can stand". He said that most of the boys started with 175 and went to 225 grains of FF.

Some people think that 2x the ball diameter is a max load, well it really depends on the size, shape and weight of the gun and what you are hunting. I have found that most hunting guns shoot best at just less than 2x the diameter. But for big game like Elk, I will head toward 3x, it really depends upon the gun. My 72 weights in at 7 1/2 lbs. and I have settled on 200 grains......just cause that is the biggest measure that I had at the time and It KICKS GOOD!

Any way....Cannon asked for a good load, if its for hunting I would think 100 grains of FF would do just fine, but if the gun likes 80, well then use 80FF. Every gun is slightly different, and you must find what they like best, that is the best part of shooting BP.

BS
www.my web page

 

[Birddog6]

I have a CVA Big Bore Mtn. Rifle I built from a kit in 1978. Hunted with it for years, then put it away as I got to shooting other rifles. I got it out a while back to take for a backup gun & shot it, first time in probably 15 years. Here is what it will do. I adjusted the sight up, bumped the charge up to 75 grains & off I went with a good 50-75 yard backup rifle for the deer season.

For some reason people get the idea ya need allot of velocity with a deer rifle, however, with a .58 cal you don't need this high veloocity, as all of the bullet energy will all stop at the deer & he will go down if you do your part & put it in his chest cavity. When you go bumping the velocity way up on a .58 cal you are not only beating your self up for nothing, you are also pushing all the energy thu the deer rather than all the energy stopping in the deer. 65 yo 80 grains is Plenty for whitetail deer hunting, IMHO.

Hard to beat for the money invested, tho I thought $ 119.95 was allot of money at the time.

:results:

 

WV_Hillbilly,

Some people think that 2x the ball diameter is a max load, well it really depends on the size, shape and weight of the gun and what you are hunting. I have found that most hunting guns shoot best at just less than 2x the diameter. But for big game like Elk, I will head toward 3x, it really depends upon the gun. My 72 weights in at 7 1/2 lbs. and I have settled on 200 grains......just cause that is the biggest measure that I had at the time and It KICKS GOOD!

BS
www.my web page

I find the above comment interest'n, but I cain't help but wonder how much of the "KICKS GOOD" is due to any additional weight of un-burnt powder added to the roundball contributes to the increased recoil.

The reason I mention this, is because only a chrony will detect if ther is an increase (or, decrease) of "velocity" with such a large powder charge be'n used in a short 27" barrel.

Have you chronographed 140gr. loads compared to the 200gr. loads out of yore short barrel????

YMHS
rollingb

 

[BS]

rollingb,

You got me wondering myself? So I had to set all my stuff up and check..............and...............So why do you call a 27" barrel short? Because of my receiver length on my Underhammer, I gain about 2 1/2"s in length, so a 27 feels like a 30".

Ok for the test results.....while digging thru my big bag, I found out that the measure that I have been using is a 190 and not a 200...........OH DARN, just kidding!

140 grains of FF feels like a kids gun.
190 good kicker
222 much more KICK

It really amazes me on how clean the barrel is. Seems to be a really clean burner.

15ft from the muzzle, and uncorrected:

140ff-1223fps.....me-1827ft#
190ff-1403fps.....me-2407ft#
222ff-1475fps.....me-2657ft#

I was surprised that 72fps gives an additional 240ft#s, but I am not sure that it is worth the extra KICK!

WACannon, sorry to mess up your post, but I hope you find this entertaining!

BS
my web page

 

rollingb,

You got me wondering myself? So I had to set all my stuff up and check..............and...............So why do you call a 27" barrel short? Because of my receiver length on my Underhammer, I gain about 2 1/2"s in length, so a 27 feels like a 30".

eace: :haha: I guess I'm jest used to barrels 36"-42" and anythin else seems short to me!! :haha:

140ff-1223fps.....me-1827ft#
190ff-1403fps.....me-2407ft#
222ff-1475fps.....me-2657ft#

IMHO, people often place too much importance on muzzle-energy, and to be quite honest I think it is too often used as a "measure" of kill'n power when a more important "measure" such as weight/momentum would give a more realistic picture of a muzzleloader's true potential to kill big game.

For instance:....

220 Swift, with a 48gr. SP "zip'n" along at over 4000 FPS, has,.... 1800 ME

50-90 Sharps 465gr. "chug'n" along at only 1320 FPS also has,.... 1800 ME

.... and a rather huge .72 600gr. roundball "plod'n" along at only 1223 FPS also has,.... 1800 ME

The last two have a bunch of "weight/momentum" over the little 48gr. .22 cal., and are much better big game killers even tho the "ME-numbers" are the same.

YMHS
rollingb

 

[BS]

rollingb,
I just used ME for a comparison, the one I like is the Taylor Factor. http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/rifleroom/taylor.html

It shows that that larger diameter projectiles have more knock down power.

 

P.S.,.... :sorry: Almost forgot,.... I'm gonna "guess" thet 100-110grs. of FFG will push a .570 285gr. roundball at somewhers around 1700 FPS. (and possibly more) which should also figure out to have a "Muzzle Energy" of at least 1800 lbs.

YMHS
rollingb

 

Thanks BS,.... I'll check out the "link"!!

...... and I agree with regards to the larger/heavier projectiles!!

YMHS
rollingb