damascus and fine twist barrels

[Jason Lewis]

i've been reading on the internet just how fine twist barrels were made since my new shotgun has them. all i can say is WOW! the first thing anybody says is don't shoot the gun. the smokeless guys either have no experience with damascus, just regurgitating what other people say, or they just assume everybody crams smokeless into an old gun.

first of all, when did all this mistrust of damascus start, what is the real differance between twist and damascus, are we the only ones who shoot these guns, good lord they get shot all the time at friendship.?

 

[zrifleman]

There are different types of damascus. Two bar damascus looks like a candy cane. It was a low pressure barrel even when new. The three bar or star pattern damascus is much stronger. High end shotguns like Parkers and English doubles use the better damascus. Do your homework and figure out what kind of damascus you have. If it's good quality, limit your loads to 6000 psi. One way to do this is by using Federal Paper Champions and Uniwads. English shotgunners favored damascus long into the smokeless era. On the other hand if you have one of the cheap imports, for safety make it a wallhanger.

 

[Bill Hall]

I've heard that part of the mistrust in firing damascus barrels occured when shotguns started switching from muzzleloaders to breechloaders, and damascus barrels were still being used. During the early years of breechloaders, black powder was still being used, but when smokeless shotgun shells were introduced and used in some of these barrels, there were some "failures".

My dad told me a story that he witnessed when he was a teenager. He went hunting with a friend who showed up with a shotgun sporting damascus barrels. His friend told my dad he took it off the wall of his grandpa's house. After firing a few times, my dad looks over and noticed one barrel had opened up slightly near the breech. He figured one more shot and there would have been some metal flying around. Bill

 

[kelleyjk]

At the gunshop I worked at 40 yrs ago we ha d a collection of Damascus barrel shotguns people took off grandpas wall and fired modern smokeless shells in.

6 if not 7 or 8 all in a stack, my boss loved showing them to people.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

This is a useful chart. I think the burst barrels came from putting high-pressure, 2 3/4 heavy hunting loads in BP barrels with 2 1/2 chambers. http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/rudybolla/misc guns and stuff/dupontpressurechart.jpg

 

[Jason Lewis]

my muzzleloading shotgun has fine twist on the top rib, what does that mean?

 

[ohio ramrod]

My oldest boy has a Bavarian Leader SxS made in the 1880's with damascus barrels and we shoot it regularly with both 70 grain FF and 18 grain red dot loads.While not a muzzleloader it shows that damascus barrels are safe if used properly. We would never put a magnum load in it or any gun not so specified. :hmm:

 

[Jason Lewis]

are there any books on the subject?

 

[Dave K]

Yes, there are articles in the Double Gun Journal about this. Right now I can't think of the man's first name, but his last name is Sherman. There have been many articles over many issues. I believe Oscar Gaddy also wrote a good number of articles. That are MANY different types of composite (Damascus, twist, laminated) that come to my mind right now. When first came out, fluid steel barrels IMHO were just plain dangerous as well. They didn't have the metallurgy we have today and slag in the barrel walls, was NOT uncommon. The main reason for going away from the composite barrels was cost. How much cheaper you could make these barrels from fluid steel over the composite barrels would have to be staggering. Composite barrels were labor intensive to make. Some of the good things about these composite barrels is since they were a combination of steel and iron, they also had some elasticity to them. Fluid barrels could be too hard and fail because of this. Any how, please go to the Double Gun Journal website and do a search on these barrels. If you enjoy these fine old barrels as I do, it is worth the search. I also shoot a pretty good number of composite barreled shotguns. Most are Baker as well in Leader, B grade, A grade and Paragon models. I have shot well over 10,000 rounds in the past 10yrs. shooting them.

I just remember, his name is Bell Sherman

 

[Jay Gardner]

The article in the Doublegun Journal was written by Sherman Bell. I've been collecting Parkers with Damascus barrels for several years. First all if you want see a collection of the various types of damascus go to the Parker Gun Collectors Association website and search for damascus. You'll find photos of dozens of patterns.

As for shooting Damascus barrels, they should first be examined by a barrel man familiar with Damascus. Wall thickness is critical. Most pitting and frost can be polished out. There are a few companies producing ammo for Damascus barrels. I've bought quite a few flats from RST and have never been disappointed.

Damascus is coming back in a big way in the SxS world and there is more info out there now than ever.

 

[Dave K]

Doublegun, of course you are right about his name. I was having a senior moment......again.....I think....maybe. Did Parker use other barrels besides Damascus, like twist or laminated steel?

 

[Jay Gardner]

Doublegun, of course you are right about his name. I was having a senior moment......again.....I think....maybe. Did Parker use other barrels besides Damascus, like twist or laminated steel?

Yes. Varying grades of damascus including Barnard, twist and laminated. I'll try to dig up a link to a collection of photos of different Damascus barrels.

In terms of Damascus barrels blowing up, most of the busted barrels I have seen burst because of obstructions not because they were Damascus. In fact the only Damascus barrel that I have first hand knowlege of bursting burst as a result of a botched hand load (double load of smokeless powder). I agree with the comment made about the demise of damascus being due to the cost of production compared to the cost of fluid steel. It certainly was not due to inferior quality.

 

[Dave K]

Doublegun, I just did a search for the other readers who have questions on these barrels. I wonder if it is permitted to post a thread from the DoubleGun site that explains these barrels and also has other related threads to check out concerning the many different types of these barrels of which many call Damascus, but many are actually NOT Damascus, but twist or laminated steel. Well, before I lose that thread here it is and please delete it, if it shouldn't be here. No wrong is intended in placing it here. Just hoping to add knowledge to those who want it. http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51274&page=1

 

[Jay Gardner]

Dave,

Thanks for posting the link. That is exactly what I was looking for. Drew's collection of photos and info is probably the single best repository of info available today and he is always looking for additional info and photos.

Jay