Delhi Gun house - have you held one?

[mattybock]

We've probably all been tempter by those very inexpensive Indian muskets made by the Delhi gun house. I was looking on a price list of theirs, converting rupees (not the Zelda kind, too bad... the world needs a pretty currency) to dollars and they go from 380 to 520 wholesale.

I have never held one, never seen one in person, but just looking at photos of these guns, the metal looks... tinny. I'm not declaring it to be a peanut butter alloy, it's just that they look cheap.

If you have ever actually shot one or held one, what is your opinion of these guns? I know everyone here has a thousand and one opinions about any gun, but personal experience counts most.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Pretty pricey for an unproofed potential pipe bomb. I've read many opinions, and none are good. Most recently someone posted about the propensity of this kind of barrel bursting during use by re-enactors.

It's all about the level of risk you're willing to take, and what kind of value you place on your face and limbs.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

An American company made a smokeless muzzleloader that was sold unproofed and has proven to be a pricey pipe bomb for a few customers. (Nearly all American made guns are unproofed)

I don't know the Dehli Gun House or it's products. I have seen some pretty poor quality stuff imported from Belgium and Spain in the 1960's and that stuff was proofed. Some Indian arms makers have been in business since the 19th century. IIRC, Navy arms sold double barrel muzzleloaders made in India back in the late 1960's. Saw one of those recently at a gun show and it was fair quality. Another American Company sold imported Spanish guns recommending loads that exceeded the Spanish proof loads.

I have a proofed marked 410 muzzle loader shot gun made in Belgium, that I would consider dangerous under any circumstances, Yet I would not consider the Belgian made Brownings to be dangerous just because of the country of origin.

I just purchased an Indian made pistol to put through the paces and see what the deal is with all the rants against Indian made guns. I have and shoot 140 year old Gahendra ( for thirty years) and it is darned accurate and seems well made.

As for tubing for barrels. I have two 410 barrel blanks made in the US, purchased from Numrich many years ago. The seam down the barrel blank is quite noticeable.

Some folks simply despise guns, cars, etc made in what they consider third world countries. I despise creamed beets.

Back in the 1960's, most folks in the US hated Honda motorcycles and automobiles. I was told by dozens of folks that my Honda MC was dangerous manure that wouldn't last two years. Now Honda has the last laugh and that 1965 Honda motorcycle is still chugging along for my ex-BIL.

There are several makers in India. Whether the specific one mentioned is high quality, low quality or manure remains to be seen.

 

[Zonie]

"There are several makers in India. Whether the specific one mentioned is high quality, low quality or manure remains to be seen. "

And that is the problem.

My 2011 Royal Enfield motorcycle is well built by the company in India. It has over 13500 trouble free miles on it now and in 3 years of owning it, the chain is all that needed replacing.

Because these motorcycles are so popular in India (9 month wait to get one), there are many private companies that make after market parts.

Some of these parts are well made but many of them are pure junk.

I would expect some Indian companies to make some pretty good guns but the possibility of other companies making guns barely suitable for hanging on a wall is likely.

In other words, your putting your faith in the company that imported them.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In other words, your putting your faith in the company that imported them.

And at an event or on a range, you are putting your faith in the shooter...


This is why I ponder the worship of the proofing house mark. I have seen several black powder barrels that were unsafe to fire, yet all had been proofed in their countries of origin at one time. I have seen Spanish, Belgian, and Italian barrels that looked fine on the outside but had internal corrosion that had made their breeches dangerously thin. Further there is no standard proofing method for muzzleloading barrels. And NOBODY visually inspects bores at reenactments nor ranges, nor at any of the shooting matches that I have attended... so if the owner has neglected the internal cleaning of his barrel... the proof mark (which only means it was safe to fire when it left the testing facility) is worthless, but was never questioned.

LD

 

[pargent]

Iam surprised by that as gun checks at events and matches are the norm. for us,( by range officers ).

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've never seen an inspection camera put down a bore, let alone a simple reflector and a light or sunlight used for a visual inspection, and that would have to have been at a match for at a target range the range officer focuses on the line and there is no inspection of firearms that are brought in.

LD

 

[Shine]

It is my general rule not to buy a gun from a country that does not allow it people to shoot one.

 

[pargent]

The firearms are inspected when the shooter signs in, checked for compliance to match rules etc. this applies to just about every match you can think of, longarms and pistol (world wide even in the US )same goes for living history events .

 

[azmntman]

:thumbsup: Well said

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sorry but the empirical evidence doesn't lie...I've been to plenty of reenactments and live fire matches from Wisconsin to New York, Pa, NJ, and as far south as Georgia..., go to them every year, and have done so for more than three decades, and NOBODY ever checked down the bores. They check the lock, they check the half-cock, they "ping" the ramrods, ...they don't inspect the bore... and most of the "safety officers" at the events are not sufficiently trained to identify a potentially bad musket barrel if they did look down the bore.

In fact if you look at the State Park Safety Regulations or Guidelines you probably won't find bore inspection procedures in the musket or rifle inspection procedures.

LD

 

[pargent]

:v

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Matty,

I've never knowingly held a gun from the Dehli Gun House but I can tell you that I never generalize anymore about guns made in India. As others have stated, there are several makers out there and several importers here in North America so it is difficult for the average Joe to know just where the gun they are interested in stacks up.

India has very strict gun laws and basically only allows its own people to have shotguns if any guns at all. That is one of the reasons why all the Indian guns are smoothbores. Most, but not necessarily all, of the guns imported from India are sold as non-firing replicas. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is no quality there. It simply means that they were exported without being completed as a "firing" gun in that the vent hole has not been drilled and possibly the frizzen was not hardened to produce a good spark. The importers finish the work when they recieve them to turn them into firing condition.

Most of the North American importers that I'm aware of import the guns from a variety of makers so you really have to trust the importer based on their reputation.

That said, I fairly recently learned that there is one Indian manufacturer who offers both "firing" guns as well as "non-firing replicas". The firing guns are finished guns as we know them and HAVE BEEN PROOFED TO INDIAN GOVERNMENT STANDARDS. I do not know if any North American importers are currently offering them.

A couple of months ago, I started a poll to find out if knowing that proofed guns were available would change anyone's opinion of Indian guns in general. Unfortunately, I screwed up the poll parameters and even I can't see the final results of the poll.

 

[Musketeer]

I own two Indian pistols. One is a Heavy Dragoon from MVTCo and the other a caplock "Sea Service" pistol I picked up from TOTW. They both are a bit crude in the F&F department, but they work. I've had the Dragoon for quite a number of years now, and I had to send it back to Pete to have the frizzen re-cased once. I also broke the original skinny teak ramrod and replaced it with a walnut one I bought online and modded to fit. No other issues. The caplock had some firing issues initially due to some ill-fitting and slightly bent screws inside the lock that I had to replace (luckily they were standard 6-32 or 8-32, don't recall now). Now it works just fine. They definitely aren't the best fitted or most accurate repros, but they do shoot and are an okay alternative for those of us on a tight budget.

The best advice I can give is to make sure you buy from a known and reputable dealer: MVTCo, Loyalist, Veteran Arms, etc. That way you're less likely to end up with an "assembled but unfinished kit gun" and if you do need to do any tweaking, it should be minor. :thumbsup:

The steel on these guns IS generally way too shiny and cheap looking, for sure. I've treated all the steel parts on both my guns with ferric chloride (PCD etchant) to give them a nice subdued gray appearance. They look waaaaay better now. :hatsoff:

edit: No experience with any of their muskets yet, but I think the pistols should be pretty representative of what to expect overall.

 

[Rudyard]

These are very dated posts from MLF that came up on U tube google thing .I have commented on these guns recently . The statement that Indians arnt allowed rifles is erroneous. The Indian Ordnance factory at Kanpur produced furbished up (Badly) 303 cal rifles in sporting configuration chamberered for the ' Westley Richards 318 Exelerated Express' since 303 or any older Govt calibre is Prohibited but 318 whatever it was comes under' NP bore Non Prohibited along with 32 cal revolvers . The smoothbore was however the most popular useful and probably easier to get liscence for . And whatever liscence or renewal ect you get it was visually simplified by blatent grease "Some Teeps" is how it was described to me & I observed it myself . The proof mark was the 3 Lion Ashoka emblem . Or I should say was in the 70s things may be alterered since .Incidentaly these Indian Ordnance re vamps came in cardboard boxes and supposedly at a Govt 'controlled price ". But reallity got in, lesser dealers got there allowed quota but bigger dealers funded the buy so ended up with a monopoly and the law of "Very demand"! forced the prices well above . I witnessed one determined village head man drag in the local Kotwhali policeman and the flinging about of top stacks of these empty cardboard boxes to satisfy the party & Mr plod . Pure theatre wonderfully performed Shakespear eat your heart out .But the next box down had a rifle so our headman coffed up and climbed into his rickshaw Beeming like a Cheshire cat and with the command of" Jellow!" ( Go!) sped away . Indiststan , "See the fun" Priceless . Regards Rudyard