So I believe that the amount black powder by volume that I shot back in the day was between 90 and 110 of FFG. I think that was a bit too much and want to develop a proper load and want to know the best manner to go about it. Any suggestions are welcome. I am shooting Maxi-balls and round balls with bore butter. I am open to any suggestions or ideas.
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Developing a load for my T/C Seneca 45 cal.
- Thread starter Firehole
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Throw that bore butter in the trash and find a different lube, then start around 50 grains and work your way up by 5 grains until your groups tighten up, then fine tweak it by a couple grains either way.
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I have used that type of load through my Seneca .45. It was hard on my shoulder, and although there was no damage I suspect it was hard on the gun too. I found that 65 grains of Goex fff with a maxi was tolerable to shoot and produced decent accuracy. Assuming that you are working up a hunting load, I'd start with about 50 grains of fff and work your way up to see what produces the most accurate load.
I haven't shot any conicals through mine but did find that it is a whole lot more accurate with .445" balls than it is with .440" ones. And 60 grains of powder was plenty, more than that and it got much less accurate.
No, I take that back. I have shot the Lyman 45 caliber Minie' bullets in it with 50 gr. of powder and it worked quite well. Still, it is a very lightly built rifle and doesn't need to be stressed by huge charges.
No, I take that back. I have shot the Lyman 45 caliber Minie' bullets in it with 50 gr. of powder and it worked quite well. Still, it is a very lightly built rifle and doesn't need to be stressed by huge charges.
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T/C's "Shooting Black Powder Guns" lists 50-90 grains FFG for the Seneca with roundball, 60-80 grains FFG with the Maxi-Ball. And in bold print, "Heavier loads are not to be used nor is a substitution of powder granulation to be attempted."
GregK
32 Cal.
I load 50 gr volume FFFG with a PRB for my target load and 60 gr volume with a powerbelt bullet for a hunting load in my 45 Seneca.
I notice more than a couple of you use FFFG instead of FFG which is all that I ever used. Why and which would be better for hunting. I am assuming that I use more powder to get more velocity and more lethality when hunting. I will use the gun for some fun shooting but probably will be using it more for getting ready to hunt and actual hunting.
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Wow, I've used that road in .50 calibers and found it hard on me and the gun. I think 90 is a stout load I a .45, but you and your gun mấy hold up better.
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When I hunted deer with a Seneca I used 80 grains of Pyrodex by volume and a T/C Maxi Hunter. That shot pretty well and killed deer just fine.
It's obvious that Thompson Center's guns in .50 caliber plus are a lot more robust guns than either the Seneca and Cherokee models. Along with the .50 caliber plus bores are the .45 Hawken and .40 Cleland guns.
I'm not suggesting either the Seneca or Cherokee models in .45 don't kill deer, I'm sure there are lots of success stories out there. I doubt we hear much about failures. Success has many friends, failure is an orphan.
I'd be curious to know how many Seneca and/or Cherokee models have broken down in some fashion from folks running them at maximum recommended loads, especially with conical bullets.
I've read it, and I can hear it now. A Seneca or Cherokee makes a nice lightweight gun for a youngster of woman to hunt with. Seems to me these are exactly the wrong people to be using a weapon of marginal power for deer sized game. Self imposed shooting distance limits might help provided the temptation to take longer shots is controlled.
Rather than push the limits of the more delicate Seneca and Cherokee models for deer sized game why not move to a gun that can handle suitable loads without being stressed.
I'm not suggesting either the Seneca or Cherokee models in .45 don't kill deer, I'm sure there are lots of success stories out there. I doubt we hear much about failures. Success has many friends, failure is an orphan.
I'd be curious to know how many Seneca and/or Cherokee models have broken down in some fashion from folks running them at maximum recommended loads, especially with conical bullets.
I've read it, and I can hear it now. A Seneca or Cherokee makes a nice lightweight gun for a youngster of woman to hunt with. Seems to me these are exactly the wrong people to be using a weapon of marginal power for deer sized game. Self imposed shooting distance limits might help provided the temptation to take longer shots is controlled.
Rather than push the limits of the more delicate Seneca and Cherokee models for deer sized game why not move to a gun that can handle suitable loads without being stressed.
Well, it was over 40-45 years ago when I last hunted with the gun much. I was young and dumb, and didn't know any better. I thought that big barrel (as compared to my Savage 30-30 pump rifle) could handle a double charge anyways. But I am much more cautious now and don't take as many risks as I used to. 
I never really thought of the Seneca as being delicate, maybe as compared to .54 cal. or .58 caliber Hawkens (canons) then maybe so. But I thought that my gun was stout and took down a few deer with no problem with those loads and never broke anything on the gun, but I don't plan on that any more though. I shot a Maxi-ball (around 220 grams I thought or might have been 245 grams from what I am seeing from Track of the Wolf) that may have helped with those heavy loads.
I never really thought of the Seneca as being delicate, maybe as compared to .54 cal. or .58 caliber Hawkens (canons) then maybe so. But I thought that my gun was stout and took down a few deer with no problem with those loads and never broke anything on the gun, but I don't plan on that any more though. I shot a Maxi-ball (around 220 grams I thought or might have been 245 grams from what I am seeing from Track of the Wolf) that may have helped with those heavy loads.
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Seneca .45 :
I read the Thompson center (T/C) manual for the max load. I am not recoil sensitive but there is no need to beat up my shoulder and cheek or stress the rifle stock with heavy loads (80-90 grains FFG/FFFG). For fun, I started with 40 grains FFFG GOEX powder and roundball @50yrds. The result was great accuracy. I increased the load in 5 grain increments and continued to get great accuracy with slightly higher points of impact at 50 yards. As I arrived at 70 grains GOEX FFFG, the accuracy was still there so I extended the range to 100 yards. Still great accuracy but I needed 60-70 grains of FFFG to have vertical success on the bull's eye @100 yards. For 100 yards or less, I decided that 50 Grains GOEX FFFG was plenty.
Once happy with the roundball, I experimented with the T/C .45 maxiball. and the .45 LEE R.E.A.L. . I worked up an accurate load using the same procedure as above. Both performed great in my Seneca. For the two conicals mentioned, I settled on 60 grains GOEX FFFG for the happy medium of accuracy, hunting and recoil comfort.
These loads in the Seneca work great for targets, deer, and the occasional pig.
Imagine, I only use 70 grains GOEX FFG in my .62 smoothbore for shot and roundball. For my T/C .50 Hawken I use 80 grains GOEX FFG for Conicals and 70 Grains GOEX FFG for roundballs.
I have taken many deer and pigs with the .45, .50. and .62 roundballs and conicals with the above loads.
Please consider the game in your hunting area. Here, I do not have Elk, Moose or Grizzly. The black bear and puma are rare and protected in this state. Native Americans have not raided my relatives for almost 200 years. My choice of projectile and powder load reflect the conditions and legal game in my hunting area.
Dan
P.S. @Firehole : In some of my guns, I feel that FFFG burns a little cleaner than FFG. One just needs to experiment.
I read the Thompson center (T/C) manual for the max load. I am not recoil sensitive but there is no need to beat up my shoulder and cheek or stress the rifle stock with heavy loads (80-90 grains FFG/FFFG). For fun, I started with 40 grains FFFG GOEX powder and roundball @50yrds. The result was great accuracy. I increased the load in 5 grain increments and continued to get great accuracy with slightly higher points of impact at 50 yards. As I arrived at 70 grains GOEX FFFG, the accuracy was still there so I extended the range to 100 yards. Still great accuracy but I needed 60-70 grains of FFFG to have vertical success on the bull's eye @100 yards. For 100 yards or less, I decided that 50 Grains GOEX FFFG was plenty.
Once happy with the roundball, I experimented with the T/C .45 maxiball. and the .45 LEE R.E.A.L. . I worked up an accurate load using the same procedure as above. Both performed great in my Seneca. For the two conicals mentioned, I settled on 60 grains GOEX FFFG for the happy medium of accuracy, hunting and recoil comfort.
These loads in the Seneca work great for targets, deer, and the occasional pig.
Imagine, I only use 70 grains GOEX FFG in my .62 smoothbore for shot and roundball. For my T/C .50 Hawken I use 80 grains GOEX FFG for Conicals and 70 Grains GOEX FFG for roundballs.
I have taken many deer and pigs with the .45, .50. and .62 roundballs and conicals with the above loads.
Please consider the game in your hunting area. Here, I do not have Elk, Moose or Grizzly. The black bear and puma are rare and protected in this state. Native Americans have not raided my relatives for almost 200 years. My choice of projectile and powder load reflect the conditions and legal game in my hunting area.
Dan
P.S. @Firehole : In some of my guns, I feel that FFFG burns a little cleaner than FFG. One just needs to experiment.
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