Difference in patterning between lead and bismuth/tin shot?

[David Veale]

I've been working to get a decent pattern with my unchoked .62 smoothbore for turkey hunting, but have thus far been decidedly unimpressed by everything I've tried. Paper shot cups, the Skychief load, every imaginable combination of wads & cards of different types... you name it.

The one thing I have not varied is the bismuth/tin shot I'm using (#6). The stuff I bought from rotometals seems as if it was originall cut from square wire and then rolled around to smooth the edges; there are still clearly visible flat faces between the rounded edges. I've been sticking with this since we keep chickens and I don't want them picking up lead shot for their crops near the house & barn where I have my range set up.

I've heard people say that the bismuth shot does not pattern as well as lead, but don't know if this is universally accepted or how serious the difference may be. Can anyone who has worked with both provide some more detail on the differences between the two types of shot? I'm wondering if I should keep at it, or if I just need to find a new spot for working up a load where I can more safely use lead.

 

[new2bp]

Unsure about bismuth, but I know that "steel" shot (soft iron actually) will tend to pattern a bit tighter than lead if all else is equal because of less shot deformation as it squeezes thru choke etc. I also know that there were some experiments done with square-cut lead shot that would really open up patterns for skeet shooting/sporting clays/upland game hunting with close shots. The un-round shape caused a LOT of pattern spread even at relatively close ranges. My gut says this could be the contributing factor to your issue....

Given your desire to shoot bismuth around the house (for good reason) I would take some supplies and hit a place where you are OK to shoot lead and at least run a few test patterns and see if it is worth continuing in that direction.

Alternatively, you may want to look at TSS (tungsten). Yeah, expensive but after patterning/load development you are looking at 4 or so shots per year before limiting out across all seasons (at least here in Florida). But I'd ask someone who has some on hand about the roundness of the pellets - though based on some TSS patterns I've seen it isn't an issue.

 

[Brokennock]

I've been working to get a decent pattern with my unchoked .62 smoothbore for turkey hunting, but have thus far been decidedly unimpressed by everything I've tried. Paper shot cups, the Skychief load, every imaginable combination of wads & cards of different types... you name it.

The one thing I have not varied is the bismuth/tin shot I'm using (#6). The stuff I bought from rotometals seems as if it was originall cut from square wire and then rolled around to smooth the edges; there are still clearly visible flat faces between the rounded edges. I've been sticking with this since we keep chickens and I don't want them picking up lead shot for their crops near the house & barn where I have my range set up.

I've heard people say that the bismuth shot does not pattern as well as lead, but don't know if this is universally accepted or how serious the difference may be. Can anyone who has worked with both provide some more detail on the differences between the two types of shot? I'm wondering if I should keep at it, or if I just need to find a new spot for working up a load where I can more safely use lead.

I've not used "non-toxic" shot in my muzzleloader in several years. The shot I used was different than yours, I cut open Heavy-Shot shells and cleaned and reatined the shot. I didn't know back then about worrying about it possibly hurting the bore (it didn't). It wasn't spherical or even semi-round with flats, but irregular, much like that little candy called "Nerds."
It patterned okay by what I knew at the time, but not all that good. It definitely didn't pattern as well as my current lead shot loads.

I think you already know the answer to your question anyways.
You need to try changing that last unchanged variable,,, the shot. Try some #5 lead shot. Without getting load specific as there are tons of topic threads on shot loads, I generally get my best results, for both small game and turkey loads, with about 10 grains more shot than powder. If I'm using my 70 grain powder measure for powder, I'll use my 80 grain powder measure for shot.

As an aside,,, I am curious as to how the lead shot might effect, or not, the chickens or their eggs. Any research from a nonbiased trustworthy source out there?

 

[Zutt-man]

I tend to agree with @Brokennock. You’ve identified your issue already.

I’ve stated it exhaustively in the past, but adding cornmeal to my load recipe turned some highly questionable (unethical) patterns into great ones. You may give it a try before switching shot.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/shot-patterns.160172/

 

[Sparkitoff]

I've tried different shot sizes of Bismuth from Rotometals. In my gun, there is a distinct "best" pattern with #5. I don't know why it patterns better than #6 or #4 (the other sizes I've tried). #6 Bismuth had a tendency to put pellets in clusters leaving gaps in the stationary pattern. #4 was round and even but had some big gaps. The #5 is a dense pattern without gaps or unevenness. I've used it for ducks, geese and cranes and it is effective, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a turkey.

 

[R Ellis]

Try some plastic shot cups .The ones without the slits cut down the sides will hold patterns tight . Also they make spreader cups if you need them for bird hunting I have used both and they do work. If you cant find the ones without the cuts just use the normal cup and tape it closed tight or use a heat source like a soldering tool to melt the fingers together

 

[Historian]

I make and shoot my own bismuth shot. T shot down to 7 shot. Bismuth patterns a lot like magnum grade lead. I have been doing this since 2014. What are you trying to hunt? In all my SXS Pedersoli's 20's I use pretty much the same loads in all of them with the exception of shot size and powder load.
2 1/2 dram to 3 dram powder.
2 leather over powder wads, 1/4 lubed felt wad, bismuth shot, then another lubed over shot felt wad to seal the bore. I use the same measure setting for powder and shot. Powder is 3Fg. The lube is olive oil and bees wax.

 

[David Veale]

I make and shoot my own bismuth shot. T shot down to 7 shot. Bismuth patterns a lot like magnum grade lead. I have been doing this since 2014. What are you trying to hunt? In all my SXS Pedersoli's 20's I use pretty much the same loads in all of them with the exception of shot size and powder load.
2 1/2 dram to 3 dram powder.
2 leather over powder wads, 1/4 lubed felt wad, bismuth shot, then another lubed over shot felt wad to seal the bore. I use the same measure setting for powder and shot. Powder is 3Fg. The lube is olive oil and bees wax.

Thanks for the info. I've been going after turkeys primarily -- and a large part of my problem is undoubtedly the lack of choke on the 20 gauge fowler I'm shooting. I like the idea of using a lubed felt wad along with the leather wads -- that certainly sounds like a good setup (and since I've been tanning my own leather, it's something I have in abundance). One of the other members also pointed out that there is some much higher grade bismuth shot available (polished and fully rounded!) which I'll be giving a try as well. BTW -- I'm curious how you're making your own shot -- is this cast?

 

[Historian]

The T- BB is cast using gang molds I purchased from Marty's Arms. I use 2 Oasis shot makers to drop the 2-7 sizes. I tumble all the shot I make in tumblers to polish and smooth it. If you want perfectly round bismuth shot you can purchase that from Ballistic Products. I am also experimenting with real wool shoot collars 1/16 inch thick to wrap and cushion the shot as well as provide about 2 degrees of choke. I will have to see what they do.

 

[westrayer]

I used to load shot shells. I had good results by using tablet backs to make an "X" that I dropped into the shot cup before loading the shot. They turned my full choke Ithaca into an Improved modified for rabbits.

 

[morb]

The T- BB is cast using gang molds I purchased from Marty's Arms. I use 2 Oasis shot makers to drop the 2-7 sizes. I tumble all the shot I make in tumblers to polish and smooth it. If you want perfectly round bismuth shot you can purchase that from Ballistic Products. I am also experimenting with real wool shoot collars 1/16 inch thick to wrap and cushion the shot as well as provide about 2 degrees of choke. I will have to see what they do.

Can you explain the wool shot collar? I haven’t heard of this before, just being curious.
Thanks

 

[Historian]

Have you heard of shot collars like the old Winchester Mark 5, or Mylar or Teflon wraps? They are used to protect the shot and or the barrel depending on what type of shot you are using. I use the same concept. I shoot Pedersoli's 20 gauges which are .625 in bore diameter. So you take your diameter of .625 and multiply that by π which is roughly 3.14159 which gives me a bore square measurement of 1.96 inches. Almost 2 inches. Using that 2 inch measure I cut a 2" by 2" square of thin 1/16 inch wool felt. That becomes my shot collar. I load the powder. Then 2 leather/felt over powder wads which have cut wool felt wads of 1/16 inch glued to each of them. Felt side goes up. Push them down about 2 1/2 inches, then load the shot collar which is lubed lightly with bees wax and olive oil and pour the shot inside the collar. Top it off with another leather/felt over shot wad with the felt side down, and ram it down to seat over the powder. Done. Helps tighten up my patterns considerably. Gluing the leather and felt wads together insures I only have 1 tin of wads and saves time loading. I might add I only plan on using this for waterfowling, turkey and squirrel hunting where tight patterns are a necessity. I am still in the testing phase and will post pictures when I am completely done.

 

[morb]

Have you heard of shot collars like the old Winchester Mark 5, or Mylar or Teflon wraps? They are used to protect the shot and or the barrel depending on what type of shot you are using. I use the same concept. I shoot Pedersoli's 20 gauges which are .625 in bore diameter. So you take your diameter of .625 and multiply that by π which is roughly 3.14159 which gives me a bore square measurement of 1.96 inches. Almost 2 inches. Using that 2 inch measure I cut a 2" by 2" square of thin 1/16 inch wool felt. That becomes my shot collar. I load the powder. Then 2 leather/felt over powder wads which have cut wool felt wads of 1/16 inch glued to each of them. Felt side goes up. Push them down about 2 1/2 inches, then load the shot collar which is lubed lightly with bees wax and olive oil and pour the shot inside the collar. Top it off with another leather/felt over shot wad with the felt side down, and ram it down to seat over the powder. Done. Helps tighten up my patterns considerably. Gluing the leather and felt wads together insures I only have 1 tin of wads and saves time loading. I might add I only plan on using this for waterfowling, turkey and squirrel hunting where tight patterns are a necessity. I am still in the testing phase and will post pictures when I am completely done.

Thanks. That’s kind of what I thought it would be, looking forward to your test results.