Different types of blackpowder?

[bigbore442001]

I recall reading an article in the now defunct Blackpowder Hunting magazine written by Ross Seyfreid about hunting game with muzzleloading rifles. I remember he wrote about that there were many manufacturers of black powder in the 18th and 19th century that specialized in sporting arms. I recall some types with special formulations to gain the most power from a given charge. Some were made with special charcoal while others were of granulations that differed than the standard 2 and 3 F grading.

It seems that there are only a few manufacturers out there today. GOEX,WANO, ELEPHANT. Are there any others that I missed? Also, I wonder if there is a market for a specialized type of black powder that Mr. Seyfreid wrote about for today's shooter? Thank you for any responses.

 

[MikeChapin]

There is also KIK, Swiss and Lidu. Don't know if Lidu is still around though.

This is just my observations. I may be contradicted by real data. For the most bang for a given charge probably Swiss is at the top. It is also the highest priced of the bunch. KIK would probably for the most bang for the buck. It is generally cheaper than most others but is just a little lower in the power department than Swiss. GOEX and the Wano powders, Grafs and Shutzen, seem to run about the same for price and burning characteristics. I have heard nothing but bad things about Elephant so have avoided it. The one time I used it was trying some stuff I won at a shoot, it gunked up the rifle after a couple of shots.

I have done a lot of hunting with GOEX over the years. 70 grains of GOEX 3F with a .50 round ball will go through a mule deer's chest cavity at 50 yards and place the ball where the sights are at. At 100 yards the ball will be under the skin on the off side. You really cannot ask for than that.

I suspect that the different granulations and other items were mostly for advertising hype that is used for everything for soap to inlines. The charcoal used to make the powder does make a lot of difference but I doubt you get much from using a bunch of 'tween granulations.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

DuPont made BP until the late '60's. I was given a lb of it by an oldster that gave up shooting some years back. derned good stuff.
there was another maker here in the USA, the name had a complex name - something like 'Austin & Halleck' or some such. I saw some empty metal cans it came in years back (can't recollect the name of it) but never any of the powder.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The powders made overseas often use screens built on the metric system, which produces slightly smaller granules of powder than what we have here in America. That contributes to the faster velocities they achieve in some guns. Also, Swiss seems to have a slightly different formula for their powders, using more potassium Nitrate than is used in America by Goex. Swiss claims the cleanliness of the powder is because of the certain type of charcoal the use.

The " Cheaper brands " tend to be not well screened. If you buy screens from McMaster.com, you can screen these powders and improve their characteristics for leaving residue, or graphite debris. None of this is important to the casual shooter. It does make a difference to the target shooters. Most of my life has been spent just casually shooting my MLers. My eyes are now betraying me, so Its way to late to think about being a serious target shooter. I therefore have not bought screens, and do not have any interest in doing this. However, My brother has been target shooting now for many years, and I have helped him screen powder and test the before and after results.

You can improve burning characteristics by using an OP Wad, even when shooting Swiss powders. With an OP wad, we have found that there is less residue, regardless of the powder used. I believe the use of an OP wad delays the movement of the ball, raising the chamber pressure, which insures that even the charcoal is burned more completely in the chamber, before the ball leaves the barrel. I do think that screening out the clinkers in powder can help get rid of the large residue we sometimes find, and, if you screen for the really fine stuff, you will get rid of graphite dust that contributes nothing to your velocity, but does bulk up the powder charge a bit, changing the velocity you get from shot to shot.

 

[roundball]

Elephant went out of business a few years back.

Goex 4F/3F/2F has always been outstanding for me, its priced well, fouls little, has good lot-to-lot consistency, and is very accurate...plus, I believe its the only remaining USA blackpowder plant in operation, so I'll be staying with Goex until I stop shooting

 

[bingo1952]

I will testify to the claims that Swiss makes as far as fouling or lack thereof. I bought my first a couple of weeks ago and a casual side by side comparison between the Swiss and Shuetzen this past weekend did indeed produce less fouling. Five shots of 85 grains with the Shuetzen had the barrel begging for a swabbing. Five shots with the Swiss and the fifth loaded almost as easily as the first. Impact points were slightly different also. The rifle was sighted with Shuetzen and with the Swiss elevation was 2" higher and 2" right of the Shuetzen POI. I am impressed with the lack of fouling so far but just don't know if I can justify the price difference for casual shooting.

 

[rabjr]

That would be "Curtiss & Harvey" supposed to be a very good sporting powder.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I use Graf&Son powder for 'casual shooting' - plinking. seems it fouls a little more than GoEx and maybe doesn't have quite the 'zip' to it charge for charge. cheaper tho.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Swiss handles their charcoal differently as well. Besides the wood they make charcoal from, they grind their charcoal basically to dust. For an experiment, I placed a measured amount of Goex in water and disolved as much as I could. After no more would disolve, I rubbed the spoon around on the borrom of the container. You could feel the grit in the bottom. I did the same with Swiss. After disolving the same way I could feel no grit in the bottom. (This test came from Bill Knight in response to a problem I had. He explained that a major difference between Swiss and others is how finely they grind their charcoal.)

Regards,
Pletch

 

[renovato]

I've had less fouling and better consistency with Swiss also. I just don't buy it for general shooting because of the price. It's hotter too, so you need to do a full load development again usually.

Paul is right about screening. It does improve the powder's characteristics. I find that it makes it both cleaner and more consistent too. And the fines you screen out makes good priming powder. Although the gains you achieve aren't really big enough to matter unless you're a dedicated target shooter. I doubt I'll bother to screen anymore unless I find a quicker and easier way to do it.

As for Elephant powder. Ugh, shudder! I bought a few cans at a gun show years ago because I couldn't find Goex and I figured anything beats going back to Pyrodex. I didn't know about ordering powder back then. Elephant was horrid. It fouled the bore with hard, charcoal like fouling. I never could find an accurate load with it either.

 

[arquebus]

Swamp Rat said:

That would be "Curtiss & Harvey"

I think Blizzard may have been thinking of Gerhardt & Owen powder that, eventually, morphed into GoEx. I think G&O may have been the successor to DuPont black powder, as they all came in very similar cans, just different logos.
Curtiss & Harvey was a British brand of powder, at one time famous for their 'Diamond Grade' powder.

 

[bingo1952]

Actually made in Scotland so I guess British for all intents and purposes. When the Dupont plant blew up the last time and they swore off BP manufacture Curtis & Harvey was what filled the gap while Gearhardt & Owen was coming up to speed. It was a little dustier than Dupont was but other than that I don't remember any significant difference but it has been a few moons ago.

 

[rabjr]

Also seen "John Hall & Son's" cans. Was that a maker or just a distributor?

 

[arquebus]

I just did a little googling & found that the DuPont black powder plant last blew up up in the early 1970s. DuPont then decided to sell the black powder side of the business to Gearhart & Owen in 1975. I am assuming that the current 'Goex' labeling is an abbreviation for Gearhart & Owen Explosives.....just a guess!

A friend of mine still has quite a quantity of DuPont black powder in 25lb metal kegs, so that must be getting on for 40 years old, assuming it was of their latest manufacture. When I first starting shooting black powder in Australia in the late 1970s/early 80s Curtiss & Harvey was about all we could get, it came in an opaque plastic bottle with a basketweave embossed into it.

 

[bingo1952]

They were a distinct maker located in Faversham, England but other than that I don't know much more. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[bingo1952]

To the best of my memory what we got here was in a green metal or perhaps heavy cardboard container. I sure wish my memory served me better.
:surrender:

 

[renovato]

This thread has gotten me interested in collecting old black powder cans. I collect a bunch of stuff and I think that would be a fascinating and pertinent collection. Anyone have any ideas where to start? I missed the chance at some nice Dupont cans a couple gun shows back. Are these being collected and traded?

 

[cowpoke1955]

"GOEX" forever!!! :thumbsup: :grin:

 

[bingo1952]

In this country you can collect and trade just about anything that is old and has a little sentimental value. I would venture a guess that frequenting the Saturday morning yard sales and estate sales would be a fair place to start. Just about anything that comes from a gun show at least in my little patch of woods) is going to be way overpriced.

 

[sidelock]

Me too. :thumbsup: