Disappointing Range Day

[Rfp10000]

I bought a new bunch of CCI Magnum #11 caps and used them today in a newer Uberti Remington New Model Army.
Virtually without fail I had to fire each cap twice to get them to go off. Once the cap went off I had zero missed or hang fires.
I shot about 25 rounds with Swiss 3F & 25 with Pyrodex P. They were all paper cartridges but as I said once the cap fired everything worked no matter which powder.

I tried tightening the tension screw on the mainspring a bit but this did not help.
The gun fired all 50 shots without any stiffening either.
My whole issue was the need to hit each cap twice.
Previously I used Remington & CCI regular caps pretty effectively & I decided I would load up on the CCI magnums. Thr gun is using Treso nipples but as I said that seemed ok previously ....any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated .
Ron

 

[mushka]

I think it's a nipple thing. I bought a set of nipples that recommended Remington 10's and it worked perfectly. I used some CCI 11 mags and had one of every cylinder fail to fire the first time but did fire on the second hit. Being dumb I didn't check to see if it was the same nipple that failed to fire. Next I'm gong to try some CCI 10's to see what happens. It's all just an experiment, enjoy it.

 

[ord sgt]

Trial and error is sometimes involved with range time. But at least you had some range time. I have not fired a shot in more than a year, thanks to the kung flu.

 

[ZUG]

The caps are not fully seated on the nipple -- you put the cap on the nipple then you **** the hammer and pull the trigger the hammer hits the cap and forces it down onto the nipple but does not set it off so you now **** the hammer again and pull the trigger which now fires the cap because the cap is now in full contact with the nipple.
Not all #11 or #10 percussion caps are the same and not all nipples either #10's or #11's are the same either. You either have to "dress" the nipples to fit the caps or try different caps to fit the nipples .

 

[bang]

Make you a T handle with wood dowel and push the caps on the nipples to seat them.

 

[Rfp10000]

I use one of those loading stands so first I load the cylinders and then put on all the caps .
I did go around and press them down with a tamping tool ...
I spoke with a gunsmith who said it is possible for the spring to slip off the roller on the hammer and weaken the tension on the spring. When I put it back together after cleaning I’ll pay attention to setting the spring in properly . Oh well ...

 

[sourdough]

This might help a bit.

Regards,

Jim

Percussion Caps and Nipples (guntoters.com)

 

[Rfp10000]

This might help a bit.

Regards,

Jim

Percussion Caps and Nipples (guntoters.com)

Thanks !.... I’ll have a PHD in percussion caps before I figure this out

BTW, since these modern caps , CCI Magnum #11 , are not corrosive , can I shoot some without charging the chambers to test whether they go off as I work my way through the issue without having to clean the gun each time ?

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

Bang has it right. Seat them fully with a dowel (or as I do, with the lowered hammer) and BANG!

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Rfp10000]

Bang has it right. Seat them fully with a dowel (or as I do, with the lowered hammer) and BANG!

ADK Bigfoot

I did do that ....

 

[bang]

May need to adjust the nipples to fit the caps to get them seated.

 

[bang]

You said it's a newer revolver. New to you or bought new?
Is it possible there could be a burr or tight spot in the hammer channel that may be slowing the hammer travel speed.?
Could the hammer screw be over torqued?
Have you checked that the hammer spring is not tilted to one side and might be rubbing?
Just for checking sake put the hammer down on a nipple with a sliver of paper between them and when you pull the paper out it should have good resistance and even tear the paper, IMO.

 

[Grenadier1758]

One basic observation I have made during years of shooting cap and ball revolvers is that if it takes more than 1 hammer fall for the cap to go off, then the nipple cone is too large.

Okay, @Rfp10000, do you have a digital Vernier caliper? These are quite accurate and can measure inside and outside dimensions. Study the dimensions of the caps in the above link.

Measure the tip of the nipple cone. That diameter should be about 0.160". Measure the depth of the skirt of the cap or measure the cone about 0.110" down. That diameter should be 0.165. That will give the cone some frictional grip on the cap while letting the cap fully seat on the cone. If the cone is larger than those dimensions, then the diameter of the cone will have to be reduced. You will want a nut of 6mm -0.75mm to thread the nipple to turn the nipple in an electric drill. A brief touch with a file will take off enough material for the cap to fully seat.

 

[Rfp10000]

One basic observation I have made during years of shooting cap and ball revolvers is that if it takes more than 1 hammer fall for the cap to go off, then the nipple cone is too large.

Okay, @Rfp10000, do you have a digital Vernier caliper? These are quite accurate and can measure inside and outside dimensions. Study the dimensions of the caps in the above link.

Measure the tip of the nipple cone. That diameter should be about 0.160". Measure the depth of the skirt of the cap or measure the cone about 0.110" down. That diameter should be 0.165. That will give the cone some frictional grip on the cap while letting the cap fully seat on the cone. If the cone is larger than those dimensions, then the diameter of the cone will have to be reduced. You will want a nut of 6mm -0.75mm to thread the nipple to turn the nipple in an electric drill. A brief touch with a file will take off enough material for the cap to fully seat.

It is a new revolver . I used it successfully a few times testing different primers. CCI 11s seemed to work fine . So I decided to load up on CCI 11 magnums thinking they would be even better than the regular CCI’s which worked fine.

I do not have a digital Vernier Caliper & would have to learn more about one which I will do. But I gather your point is that I might need to see precisely how these magnums fit the Tress #11’s I have.
I might just open another can and see how they work although these work just fine on my Pedersoli 12 gauge .

I cleaned the gun and put it back together & I plan on firing some caps without charges in the chambers just for the heck of it.

 

[Siringo]

The caps are not fully seated on the nipple -- you put the cap on the nipple then you **** the hammer and pull the trigger the hammer hits the cap and forces it down onto the nipple but does not set it off so you now **** the hammer again and pull the trigger which now fires the cap because the cap is now in full contact with the nipple.
Not all #11 or #10 percussion caps are the same and not all nipples either #10's or #11's are the same either. You either have to "dress" the nipples to fit the caps or try different caps to fit the nipples .

The caps are not fully seated on the nipple -- you put the cap on the nipple then you **** the hammer and pull the trigger the hammer hits the cap and forces it down onto the nipple but does not set it off so you now **** the hammer again and pull the trigger which now fires the cap because the cap is now in full contact with the nipple.
Not all #11 or #10 percussion caps are the same and not all nipples either #10's or #11's are the same either. You either have to "dress" the nipples to fit the caps or try different caps to fit the nipples .

 

[Rfp10000]

Just an update here ... I tried the CCI MAGNUM caps on the stock nipples that came with the gun and the same thing happened.
I then tried Remington 11s on the Treso nipples and BANG!
Fortunately the magnums do seem to work with my Pedersoli 12 gauge Coach gun so I do have a use for them.
I now need to search for some Remington 11s as best I can tell . The stock nipples take Remington 10s so I guess either will work.
I had tried CCI regular 11s and they seemed ok . I bought the magnums without trying them on the specific gun thinking they were the same only with more of a charge. With the difficulty getting stuff , I ordered a bunch to have them on hand. At this point I’m baffled as to whether it is the one tin or all of them...

 

[Professor flintlock]

Just an update here ... I tried the CCI MAGNUM caps on the stock nipples that came with the gun and the same thing happened.
I then tried Remington 11s on the Treso nipples and BANG!
Fortunately the magnums do seem to work with my Pedersoli 12 gauge Coach gun so I do have a use for them.
I now need to search for some Remington 11s as best I can tell . The stock nipples take Remington 10s so I guess either will work.
I had tried CCI regular 11s and they seemed ok . I bought the magnums without trying them on the specific gun thinking they were the same only with more of a charge. With the difficulty getting stuff , I ordered a bunch to have them on hand. At this point I’m baffled as to whether it is the one tin or all of them...

I'll buy your magnum caps if you want to sell and the price isn't crazy. PM me

 

[Rfp10000]

I'll buy your magnum caps if you want to sell and the price isn't crazy. PM me

Ok .. I’ll keep you in mind ...

 

[ZUG]

Let the rest of us know how you ship the caps if you do sell them as I don't think you can do it legally without the proper paperwork and fees.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I have used them with no issues.