Dixie Lock Tuning Q.

[The Baron]

Not sure if this is better here, or in the builders forum. I'm certainly no gun builder...

I recently bought a Dixie Gun works Tennessee rifle that has some minor lock issues. The gun is marked made in Japan, and I'd guess it's from the 80's-90's (?). The frizzen spring doesn't seem to be providing enough support to the frizzen. When I manually lift the frizzen to it's open position, it wiggles almost freely (my other flinters are firm in this position, held by the spring). When I cock/fire the gun the flint ends up stopping against the half-open frizzen (i.e. the frizzen does not "flip" open, out of the way but gets pinched by the flint). The flint angle seems correct, but I suspect the frizzen spring needs work/replacement? I've posted a video of what happens when the gun is "fired". I was trying to post another video of how wiggly the frizzen is when fully open, but can't make that one work so hopefully my description makes sense.

Another question would be... does anyone know what locks Dixie used in these guns and what size flint if appropriate for it? The seller had one saw cut flint in the gun, but I don't even know if it is the right size or not.

Link

 

[Tom Compton]

Your flint is too short. Post a pic of lock on Half clock and frozen closed. Flint should be touching or almost touching the frizzen.
TC.

 

[excess650]

I have a flintlock Dixie Tn Mtn Rifle in 50cal. They were made by B C Miroku in Japan (think Browning Citori). AFAIK, they made the lock. The frizzen on mine is sloppy as you describe, but works perfectly. I did put a bead of JB Weld around the pan and filed it flat so as to make a good seal.

It should take a 5/8" or 3/4" flint.

L&R makes a replacement lock if you were to decide to replace the original. It does require deepening the inlet behind the lock plate.

 

[The Baron]

Oh wow, I see that now. It's way too short. This is a pic at half cock.

I've measured and the flint that came with the gun is only about 5/8" square. It looks like I need a flint about 1" long x 1/2 - 5/8". Closest I see listed on TOTW "5/8 x 3/4", small Siler, L&R Bailes, CVA, all Thompson Center flintlocks, Lyman Great Plains & Trade Rifles, Pedersoli LePage pistol". Does that seem about right? Any longer flints are too wide (3/4"+) but I can always bump the flint forward in the jaw to get it closer.

Is there a way to tighten up the lock parts? The hammers had a bit of wiggle, as does the frizzen when it's open.

excess 650 - Very interesting. I know Miroku has made some quality guns, so maybe these Dixie's are too.

Thanks!

 

[Gene L]

I had to replace the tumbler (or had it replaced) to take out hammer play.

 

[excess650]

The flint can be wider than the frizzen, but make sure that if it is, the excess width is away from the barrel. I'm thinking that you need the 3/4x7/8 as that is what most of my flints are. I've used both black and amber, and it really isn't hard on flints.

The Miroku barrels don't have real deep rifling, but are excellent shooters. I've considered shortening mine to eliminate the muzzle heavy feel, but I shoot it so well offhand that I've just decided to leave it as is.

 

[hawkeye2]

There are two easy ways to take the play out of the frizzen. first if the frizzen is too narrow for the space between the plate and the bridle you can add shims on one or either side as needed. An aluminum can is a good source of shim stock. Second, if the hole in the frizzen is much larger than the screw you can go to the local hobby shop or a good hardware store and buy some K&S brass tubing. It comes in a wide variety of diameters and has the advantage of telescoping the next size. Pick a piece that is a good fit in the frizzen and fit it to the screw. That may require another smaller tube or sanding out the inside of the tube you added to the frizzen. Don't get the assembly so tight it won't move freely.

Where does the hammer wiggle? Between the plate and the tumbler? K&S tubing will work there too. Between the hammer and the tumbler? Take the hammer off and place it on a firm hard surface. With a cold chisel that is about the same width as the square in the hammer strike the chisel with it held parallel to one side of the opening. This will displace some metal into the square opening. repeat for the other three sides. The hammer screw will cover the marks if you do it right. Turn the hammer over and repeat on the inside. Now fit the hammer to the tumbler, may require a little filing on the hammer, not the tumbler.

The brass tubing will eventually wear out but so will the earth we are walking on. It's easily replaced (not the earth).

 

[excess650]

My frizzen has the lateral play in the bridle. While it might not be what I think it should be, it simply works every time. Too, the spring tension on the frizzen is far less than ANY of my other locks (Chambers, L&R, and Davis), but since this one is easy on flints, I'm thinking the others may have too much tension.

NONE of mine are broken, so I'm not going to fix them. :wink:

 

[Tom Compton]

The Frizzen on my Cochran lock is loose between the plate and the bridle. Tight when frozen s closed. Works great. Only bothers one guy in our club but he is a builder.

 

[Rifleman1776]

As you can see from the replies so far, those early Japan made locks can be improved somewhat with various types of fiddling. But, it will never be a good lock. Best repair is replacement.

 

[hawkeye2]

Almost any lock will respond well to tuning, even the best (Japanese Tower pistol locks excepted :grin: ). I have some friends who owned a few of these rifles and never had a lock problem out of the box. The lock is quite adequate and I would hesitate recommending someone spend $175 + shipping (current L&R price) to replace one.

When Dixie introduced these rifles it was a popular thing to bash them based on the non-native cherry stock which looked a little odd and Southern Mountain Rifles didn't enjoy the popularity they do today, most wanted more bling or a "hawkens". The reputation of some of the earlier muzzleloading firearms from Japan didn't help either. Those who bought one and spent some serious range time with it found they were a very good return on their investment.

 

[The Baron]

That's great to hear. I need to try a proper sized flint (although the flint it came with measures the "correct" size of 5/8", it sure doesn't seem long enough). As long as it sparks and fires well, I'll probably end up having my local 'smith see what he can do to tune/tighten things up. He's not a flintlock builder, but very talented and surprisingly reasonable.

I hope my Dixie proves to be reliable, as it is growing on me even before I've had a chance to fire it. The stock was refinished by a previous owner, looks like they burned it (?) to try and give it some character.

Haven't taken my own pics yet, but this is what the seller used in his ad and it shows the stock finish pretty well. I believe the star inset is an add-on too, and is quite nicely done.

 

[excess650]

It appears the barrel and stock has been shortened. Original barrel length was 41-1/2" or close. At full length they were noticeably muzzle heavy, 15/16" straight .50cal

The Hunters Star is covering the grease hole in the buttstock.

 

[The Baron]

Ah-ha. Definitely been cut down then - barrel measures about 33" and points nicely.

 

[The Baron]

Range update. I was able to find a box of Hornady 0.490" round balls locally, so I hit the range today with my "new" Dixie. I started with 70gr. 3F and both a 0.010" Wonder Lubed patch and also patches I cut myself form cleaning patches with some Leigh Valley lube/cleaner. Results were not that great and printing to the left and a bit high. I decided to try a thicker patch so loaded up with 65gr. 3F and a 0.018" Wonder Lubed patch. That fixed the windage and two shots were fairly close, but a bit low. So I upped the charge to 75gr. 3F with the 0.018" patch and bingo! My last 5 shots at 50 yards were spread about 3 1/2" and right around the bull. Considering I shot without my glasses and the front site was pretty fuzzy, I was satisfied. Certainly good enough for deer and a decent starting point to improve on.

As for the lock firing, I had issues with getting good spark after a handful of shots with the 5/8" flint, so I switched to a large 7/8"x1" flint from my fowler and that worked perfectly for about 8-10 shots then I had to put in a new (i.e. sharp) flint to get reliable ignition again. I think I'll be fine with a proper sized flint, somewhere between the two I tried today (I'm thinking of trying a few each of the 5/8" x 3/4" and 3/4" x 7/8" from TOTW). I am happy to report that when the priming charge goes off, the gun does fire quickly.

A couple of pics - gun in the great outdoors and my last 5 shots with best of the day load.

 

[Maven]

It may be time to consider rehardening your frizzen. Btw, that's a nice grouping for shooting without your glasses on!

 

[The Baron]

It may be time to consider rehardening your frizzen. Btw, that's a nice grouping for shooting without your glasses on!

I think that would help alot, but I don't think I necessarily want to try this myself. Or, is it as easy as YouTube makes it look? :hmm: Any recommendations?

 

[azmntman]

Looks like a 3" group to me? Anyway yer gettin there. Get the Dutch system, I bet that rifle will give ya 1" groups when you arrive at its favorite meal :thumbsup:

 

[Maven]

Actually, I sent mine to Ric Carter (custom builder) in Somers, MT as I've read conflicting things about the YouTube methods. Also, I took a Cratex wheel and my Dremel and polished all the inner surfaces of the lock plate and sear bar. Ditto the triggers. Btw, I sold the gun long ago as I found that 41 1/2" bbl. much too muzzle heavy.

 

[Tom Compton]

Baron u seriously need to find an experienced flint shooter to hang with. I shot my DGW flinter w the bevel down and could get 15-20 shots before needing to freshen the edge. I do it right in the jaws on the gun w a small BRASS hammer. It was normal to get 75-80 sometimes 100 shots on one flint tho some would crack or get otherwise unusable a lot sooner.

Lots of little tricks and things that work w one flinter or another.