do all flintlocks have a fly?

[Florida airgunner]

Hi

I was disassembling my indian made charleville lock for the first time when I found out it doesn't have a fly! I'm so confused, do all locks have a fly or is there something wrong with mine.

My lock will prematurely go off when you lightly pull the trigger, but without enough force to open the steel. It only fires properly if youu yank the trigger. Maybe that has something to do with it?

as you can see in the photo, there is no fly or fly slot

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

No, all flint locks do not have a fly, Typically single trigger, lower co$t locks do not have a fly.

They are needed on a flintlock with double-set triggers, as the pull is so light that the sear nose could drop into the half-cock notch.

You can still do a great trigger job on that lock! Just note, if it starts to catch at half cock, you’ll need to increase pressure of the sear spring. That will make you apply more trigger pressure which keeps the sear nose away from the half-cock notch.

 

[Florida airgunner]

No, all flint locks do not have a fly, Typically single trigger, lower co$t locks do not have a fly.

They are needed on a flintlock with double-set triggers, as the pull is so light that the sear nose could drop into the half-cock notch.

You can still do a great trigger job on that lock! Just note, if it starts to catch at half cock, you’ll need to increase pressure of the sear spring. That will make you apply more trigger pressure which keeps the sear nose away from the half-cock notch.

Thank you so much sir. I was getting worried I messed something up. I have the lock fully disassembled right now and it is filthy.

All the parts have lots of machine marks and sharp edges on them. How should I polish these up?

 

[CuNosecap]

Brake cleaner gets rid of the gunk.
The simplest way to fix the machine marks is to rub or slide the bearing surfaces over a flat sharpening stone, or successive grits of diamonds block.
Without a fly, it will not likely be a great, fast lock. But a little work will give you a nice, serviceable lock.

 

[French Colonial]

Brake cleaner gets rid of the gunk.
The simplest way to fix the machine marks is to rub or slide the bearing surfaces over a flat sharpening stone, or successive grits of diamonds block.
Without a fly, it will not likely be a great, fast lock. But a little work will give you a nice, serviceable lock.

The fly has nothing to do with the speed of the lock. All the fly does is keep the sear from falling into the half cock notch.

The mainspring strength and the inertia of the cock and the distance it will travel will determine the speed of the lock.

 

[reddogge]

Your trigger pull on a single trigger will give you enough time to let the hammer fall and avoid the half cock notch.

 

[Sam squanch]

I used Raid and the fly on my flintlock died….

 

[64Springer]

Removing the half cock notch is the single most effective way to make certain your sear nose never lands on the half cock notch.

Did it to my Zoli Zouave.

What a great rifle.

I can ease that trigger back as slowly as I want to a be assured that the hammer will hit the cap.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here is the solution to creating a lighter trigger pull with a lock with no fly. Measure the distance from the center of the spindle on the tumbler to the lip(top) of the half cock and full cock notches. The distance to the half cock notch lip should be equal to or better, less than the distance to the lip of the full cock notch. File the lip of the half cock notch lower even if you have to file the half cock notch deeper to keep a strong lip required to prevent the sear from disengaging. You likely will have to anneal the tumbler to do this and then harden and temper it. On some India-made guns, you may not have to anneal it at all because it was never successfully hardened.

dave

 

[Sam squanch]

Dave, have you ever considered writing a flintlock tuning and tips book? And building muzzleloaders in general? I feel your knowledge must be preserved. Just a thought.

 

[Florida airgunner]

Hi,
Here is the solution to creating a lighter trigger pull with a lock with no fly. Measure the distance from the center of the spindle on the tumbler to the lip(top) of the half cock and full cock notches. The distance to the half cock notch lip should be equal to or better, less than the distance to the lip of the full cock notch. File the lip of the half cock notch lower even if you have to file the half cock notch deeper to keep a strong lip required to prevent the sear from disengaging. You likely will have to anneal the tumbler to do this and then harden and temper it. On some India-made guns, you may not have to anneal it at all because it was never successfully hardened.

dave

while reassembling the lock I just can't get the tumbler and cock to fit tightly which leaves a little wiggle room between the cock and Lockplate. Is this ok? The video shows the wiggle

 

[MAC1967]

I have an L&R manton lock on my current build and I'm scared that it won't have the fly for long . . . it's almost microscopic. HA !! (Flag as not helpful. . .I won't be offended.)

 

[Florida airgunner]

No, all flint locks do not have a fly, Typically single trigger, lower co$t locks do not have a fly.

They are needed on a flintlock with double-set triggers, as the pull is so light that the sear nose could drop into the half-cock notch.

You can still do a great trigger job on that lock! Just note, if it starts to catch at half cock, you’ll need to increase pressure of the sear spring. That will make you apply more trigger pressure which keeps the sear nose away from the half-cock notch.

Update on the trigger.
It will fire properly with a slow trigger pull!!! The full cock notch in the tumbler wasn't deep enough so I took a file and made it right. So happy with myself! I also cleaned the factory gunk off then polished and lubricated the lock.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
You want to have a little space between the lock plate and cock. What happens all too frequently on India-made guns is the shoulder on the post of the tumbler does not protrude through the plate so when the cock is tightened down by its screw, it grinds against the plate.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/fixing-locks.165922/
The wobble is because the fit of the tumbler in its hole in the plate is rarely very precise on India-made guns. The link above shows some particularly bad examples. However, most of the wobble will go away once the bridle is installed supporting the other side of the tumbler. Good luck.

dave

 

[Relic shooter]

Hi

I was disassembling my indian made charleville lock for the first time when I found out it doesn't have a fly! I'm so confused, do all locks have a fly or is there something wrong with mine.

My lock will prematurely go off when you lightly pull the trigger, but without enough force to open the steel. It only fires properly if youu yank the trigger. Maybe that has something to do with it?

as you can see in the photo, there is no fly or fly slot
View attachment 259260

Most military rifles lacked a fly.
Your lock looks pretty rough but can be greatly improved by smoothing the surfaces 'but' do not round-off the edges of the lock's tumbler or sear.
If lock tuning is new to you, consider checking out some videos on utube & asking for specifics from forum members on each part of the lock's components.

 

[Florida airgunner]

Hi,
You want to have a little space between the lock plate and cock. What happens all too frequently on India-made guns is the shoulder on the post of the tumbler does not protrude through the plate so when the cock is tightened down by its screw, it grinds against the plate.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/fixing-locks.165922/
The wobble is because the fit of the tumbler in its hole in the plate is rarely very precise on India-made guns. The link above shows some particularly bad examples. However, most of the wobble will go away once the bridle is installed supporting the other side of the tumbler. Good luck.

dave

Hi,
You want to have a little space between the lock plate and cock. What happens all too frequently on India-made guns is the shoulder on the post of the tumbler does not protrude through the plate so when the cock is tightened down by its screw, it grinds against the plate.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/fixing-locks.165922/
The wobble is because the fit of the tumbler in its hole in the plate is rarely very precise on India-made guns. The link above shows some particularly bad examples. However, most of the wobble will go away once the bridle is installed supporting the other side of the tumbler. Good luck.

dave

Yeah I figured that out