Doc Help: Landsknecht Matchlock Pistol?

[john wilson]

Blimey Alden! you're a walking encyclopaedia! Impressive stuff. Have you read Wolf Hall? I think you might like it :hmm:

 

[john wilson]

Spot the deliberate mistake Karl? Just looking at the first PIC with the matchlock musket propped up in the foreground,the trigger looks to be bound up to prevent snagging and the lock throwing accidentallyin transit (which I would imagine would have been common practise). So why isn't the serpentine in the firing position? Or have I just made a fool of myself again?

 

[Teleoceras]

Jet car willy:

Spot the deliberate mistake Karl? Just looking at the first PIC with the matchlock musket propped up in the foreground,the trigger looks to be bound up to prevent snagging and the lock throwing accidentallyin transit (which I would imagine would have been common practise). So why isn't the serpentine in the firing position? Or have I just made a fool of myself again?

With a standard sear Matchlock, it is normal for the serpentine to be away from the pan. Only a snapping Matchlock would the serpentine be in the position you mentioned.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

 

[john wilson]

There you go,learned something new again! I thought 'trigger up-hammer down' ... Teach me to be a smart ***!
What the hell is a teleo...thing? Sounds like a dinosaur with a scope fitted! :thumbsup:

 

[john wilson]

Well one thing you might take note of is the term 'club-butted' They're called that for a reason,because they look like a club and because they were used as a club. Nearly every weapon has at least one ancilliary use, in the case of pikes they were the swiss army knife of the middle ages when it came to getting inside suits of armour. Swords were maily held with the blade and the haft has used to push and hook your opponent to the floor,only then did the pointy bit come into play.On foot armed with pistol and 'in melee' you get one shot at close range and then you're done,swords can be difficult to access and to swing, you need short weapons in a crowd so a metal reinforced butt on the ball of a pistol will do just nicely thanks. On horseback I agree, you have a holster and you have room and the pistol is not suitable as a club,not long enough. But if you were really concerned about dropping the thing you would use a lanyard. The ball on the butt's primary function is as a weapon, the fact that most of these highly expensive,highly decorated works of art don't have chunks taken out of them is because people didn't want to damage them. They cost a fortune! What would you use? a knuckle duster or your Rolex?
Any way, hows the research coming Chris? turn anything up yet?

 

[Alden]

Willy;
Didn't see musket but does this help?


And you're quite right about muskets being used as clubs. A standard 17th C. manual-of-arms command was "club, muskets" and the troop would hold it by the barrel like a baseball (rounders?) bat.

 

[john wilson]

Dead right, you turn a wheel lock end up and what have you got? A mace! The fact that it became a fashionable appendage over time doesn't rule out its original design function. :thumbsup:

 

[robinghewitt]

It would be nice if you could get away with only 45 degrees travel on the serpentine so it never jammed up.

Also handy if you could pivot the tricker behind the lock plate, but it has to go above or below. (Hint: above) :thumbsup:

 

[ChrisPer]

Research? My research is on other things right now.

But tell us: why is this about landsknechts, not say Swedish mercenaries or Roundhead gunnery sergeants?

 

[Alden]

Um, because they're not COOL, duh!

Or as someone once said: to dress like a Landsknecht you'd BETTER be tough.

OK, honorable mention to the Swiss Guard...

Swedish mercenaries, eh? LOL And don't be so Cavalier. LOL I slay myself!

 

[Karl Helweg]

http://ahonuchiha10899.tumblr.com/post/83048040525/peashooter85-an-unusual-matchlock-blunderbuss

 

[ChrisPer]

http://ahonuchiha10899.tumblr.com/post/83048040525/peashooter85-an-unusual-matchlock-blunderbuss

I like the provenance:

hominishostilis reblogged this from airmanisr and added:

An actual hand cannon

 

[john wilson]

Because the original thread was specifically related to a question of whether the Landsknecht might have carried matchlock pistols and this became the necessary debate into whether they in fact did or did not ever exist,and the search for supporting evidence 'yeah or nay'. I think its gone rather well so far. People who've had something to say have come to the fore with suggestions,I'm certainly wiser on the subject than I was and hopefully others are looking at the question and deliberating further.It's become more of a general question now I think,not so much about any specific group in any particular country. After all if they did not exist,then no-one could have used them,if they did in certain areas then some may have,others not. Just using logic sift through the data, new stuff keeps popping up all the time. :thumbsup:

 

[john wilson]

Think that belongs back on a 6ft pole as far away from your head as possible. Cast brass? Er,... after you with that one Karl :hatsoff:

 

[john wilson]

I'm probably speaking nonsense again Robin but if you got the throw down to 45° it might get a bit hairy with open pans and sparks etc come priming time,isn't that what flintlocks were for?? Think you're trying a bit of reverse engineering there mate.

 

[robinghewitt]

I'm probably speaking nonsense again Robin

There are vast quantities of nonsense spoken on this forum every day and I am sure I am responsible for more than my fair share.

But without the nonsense most of us would be reduced to questioning the expert few and it would be extremely boring.

Please be as nonsensical as you like with my blessing.

Here are some truths I hold as self evident, could be nonsense, do you see what fun this is? Matchlock musket triggers pivoted at the top, sporting matchlocks were all snappers, matchlock pistols are something else and Henry the Eighth's gun, in the Tower of London, is probably the converted wheel lock that Blackmore refers to as having the only known example of the last matchlock mechanism used by the army, the one having a drawing pan lidde :thumbsup:

 

[Alden]

Mixing metaphors, he's playing cat and mouse on your leg and telling you it's raining Willy with his and his take on others' "nonsense" as he says. Ignore it and don't let it confuse you at this time...

 

[john wilson]

Wow!,.. really? I didn't realise he'd done any of that stuff Alden,thanks for the heads up I'll be more careful next time :idunno:

 

[robinghewitt]

Wow!,.. really? I didn't realise he'd done any of that stuff Alden

What stuff? You are one up on me, I couldn't make head nor tail of it :idunno:

 

[john wilson]

Kinda my point,if you really did manage to do all the cat and mouse stuff without me noticing I reckon you'd make a GREAT dentist. :haha: