Doc Help: Landsknecht Matchlock Pistol?

[Karl Helweg]

I am crossposting this from another forum:

"Does anyone have pictures of Landsknecht with matchlock pistols?"

There is a fair amount of period artwork showing Landsknechts with matchlocks but I have never found one showing a matchlock pistol (a couple wheelock pistols).

 

[robinghewitt]

There is one European matchlock pistol, the so called Jailers pistol in the form of a key.

There are Japanese matchlock pistols.

There are fantasy matchlock pistols.

Did I miss any?

 

[rickystl]

Hi Squire. One more....an Indian matchlock pistol. :haha: I do not believe there is any historical evidence of a European matchlock pistol. Not even in paintings of the period. Can't really imagine any practical use for one. Even this Indian - and Japanese matchlock pistols I believe were used as part of a dress code, or to signify rank. Just my guess. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Karl Helweg]

Besides the possible Jamestown matchlock pistol there are surviving European made matchlock pistols like:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92799&stc=1

This might help clarify his question a little: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

 

[Karl Helweg]

This is the only woodcut that I recall showing a Landsknecht with a pistol and it is a wheellock. Hoping someone else here knows of other contemporary artwork showing more pistols carried by Landsknechte.

 

[Karl Helweg]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=90849&stc=1

 

[john wilson]

I've got something you might have missed Robin,just doing a bit of internet digging and stumbled on your site, I've got a matchlock pistol with late pattern English lock,interesting thing, no idea how to upload photos onto this site though so I've sent a snap direct to your e.mail, maybe you can post it and let others have a look. John.

 

[robinghewitt]

Hi John
I have a website? Cool :thumbsup:

No pictures received, you probably have my commercial email address. Unchanged for the last 20 years it gets an incredible quantity of spam which is handled by equally vicious spam filters. You could try adding a buzzword to bypass them and try again. Easiest would be to add my surname Hewitt with white space either side somewhere in the text. But even that might not work if it takes umbrage at the picture.

Robin

 

[john wilson]

Hi Robin,I suppose I meant the website you're a member of, (not very au fait with internet protocols I'm afraid,always feel someone's going to take exception to something I say in the forums so I tend to keep the old head down Pity the snap didn't get through, I'm sure it'll be of interest to members judging by what I read, I sent it to the email linked to your name on the forum. How do you post photos on here? I tried clicking the 'image' button at the top of the page but it asked for a URL , that's for a link isn't it? Cheers, John

 

[ChrisPer]

That is clearly a Brescian wheellock pistol with a retrofitted matchlock.

My guess it was done for a 19th century decorator, with a genuine pistol missing its lock.

 

[Alden]

I suspect it is NOT a decorator. At the very least it was relatively easy to fix a bad wheelock lock with a contemporary matchlock mechanism. The (in)famous Newtown Musket is a good example -- if you look at the original it was SO clearly a wheelock converted to match on the original lockplate, but, to your point...

...who knows when.

 

[robinghewitt]

How do you post photos on here? I tried clicking the 'image' button at the top of the page but it asked for a URL , that's for a link isn't it?

Most hereabouts use www.photobucket.com to get their pics on to the web. Click on the link and follow instructions :thumbsup:

 

[john wilson]

[/URL][/img]

Right, fingers crossed I've got it right. Thanks Robin.

 

[john wilson]

[/URL][/img] Slightly better pic. I've got quite a few more detailed closeups of the gun,don't want to flood the site with my stuff though,let me know if you want to see more. John.

 

[robinghewitt]

I don't know what it is but I think it is wonderful, and so big :grin: :hatsoff:
Robin

 

[john wilson]

Definitely not a wheel lock far too slim and there's no evidence of it being reworked from anything to what it is. It's a late pattern English matchlock lock, c.1680. These were made during the transition to early flint and adopted the banana shaped plate so they could be upgraded to standard flint lock. The shape is early flintlock (doglock) in the European/English style. It doesn't exist, that's why you've never seen it before. No markings on it anywhere (I'd be more worried if there were) but the pagination is even and almost perfect. I have a theory it might be American colonial, does it look like cherry wood to you guys? John.

 

[john wilson]

Thought you'd like it that should say patination (predictive bloody text! )

 

[Alden]

Sweet!

 

[Curt LaManna]

I stand corrected JC Willy! I just compared my Leonard Day copy of the Mayflower, supposedly,
Wheelock carbine, to your pistol. Also, I spent another hour on the web, looking over many original examples of the Wheelock pistols. Any conversion, as you kindly pointed out, would be much thicker at the bottom of the lock, to accommodate the spindle and wheel mechanism.
Also your observation of this possibly being an American Colonial product or recycle, is a distinct probability. As for the wood of the stock, it looks as a hard grained European wood, such as used to make German gun stocks, Birch, Ash etc.
My family of Maternal origin, have been in the Colonies in NY and PA since the early 1700s and I was told of the struggles as immigrants and how every single metallic item was reused, and recycled for as long as it was useful. Great Grand Father's tales of reuse of everyday items, such as straightening and re-tempering nails. With the cost of producing any Gun Locks, it would make perfect sense to use a functional Match Lock action into a less expensive pistol.
It is an exceptional item and thank you for sharing your pictures!
Cheers! :hatsoff:

 

[john wilson]

Not here to correct anybody az, just to bang a few heads together see if any sensible thoughts come out You seem to be thinking the way I am. The accepted consensus is there were no English matchlock pistols,but that's an English lock,where else would you find English locks and European craftsmen in around the late 17th cent? Why good old New England eh ? It's known that the English raised standing armies in the local population to defend against the French etc and supplied arms powder and ball and provisions.Flintlocks were expensive both to the suppliers and to the users if they went wrong and the first order of business was to equip their own forces,matchlocks were popular in the colonies because of their simplicity and reliability,some settlers hung on to them well into the 18th century. The Brits with a weather eye into the future knowing that the French were tooling up with flinters on a grand scale decided they could supply a lock which would keep everyone happy and when people came around to the idea of the new fangled gadget they'd upgrade it out of their own pocket!... Cute eh?