Does anybody have any experience with 7 seas derringer?

[cdg]

Hello everybody. Well, I have been considering the purchase of a muzzleloading pistol for some time now. I am curious about a product apparently by Navy Arms called the "Seven Seas Derringer". At the moment, I'm in a slight hurry to post this up, so the best link I can grab is this one:
[url] http://personalsecurityzone.c.../PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=25362[/url]

Haven't had a chance to look up any reviews on it yet, but I thought I'd also throw it up here. Does anybody know:

1) The historical background for this design? Looks kind of like a fronteir pistol that would date to the Lewis and Clarke expedition...

2) This specific replica model- how is the quality, where is it made? It's pretty cheap, so I am suspicious. I know though that it's a smoothebore with a screw in barrel, so it's probably not very expensive to produce either...

3) How are they to shoot? Frustratingly inaccurate and inconsistant, or are they good within their limits?

Like I said, I intend on looking into this model further a little later on, but it's always nice to get a more personalized opinion off of a forum...

Your response is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[TN.Frank]

If you want a box lock boot pistol this looks as good as any for the price. This style pistol in percussion would probably date to the 1830's or so, a bit late for Lewis and Clark.

 

[rebel727]

Without sights I doubt you'll get much accuracy from it but for the 56.00 price tag it ought to be a fun toy.

 

[cdg]

Yeah I wasn't thinking it could probably be very accurate, especially without sights. I wonder if sights could be added as a kind of first project... Then again, that might not be such a hot idea, and probalby more complicated then it first sounds.

I'm wondering at this point if anybody here has one, and can tell me where it's made and to what kind of standard of quality. I like that it's cheap, but there's no sense throwing yoru money away, when paying twice as much could get you 3 times as much gun... I want something that could be shot a lot, as I plan on re-joining my local range and trying to head out there more often before I go off to college up north...

I was thinking it would be more a gun that I could learn how to handle a muzzleloader with. Might even be possible to load up some shot in it (like birdshot) and blow the crap out of some paper plats at 5 yards or something. :haha:

Any general thoughts? Stupid wate of money noise-maker only, or could it be OK to learn a few things about muzzleloading with? To tell you the truth, I kind of like it from the looks of it, and of course the price tag is attractive too...

Also, general thoughts on required reading, ball selection, ball casting, and powders that should be used are appreciated, but not specifically part of my questions. Not to be offensive, but in matters like that where your safety may be on the line, I prefer to consult books over internet forums. Discussing loads on the internet could literally be a place where typos might be deadly...

 

Not to be offensive, but in matters like that where your safety may be on the line, I prefer to consult books over internet forums. Discussing loads on the internet could literally be a place where typos might be deadly...

Yeah, somebody might put in 700 grains instead of 70. :shocked2:

 

[rebel727]

If it was me I'd rather have something along the lines of a Kentucky pistol. At least something with sights and a rifled barrel.

 

[Zonie]

I don't own one. In fact, I've not seen this pistol before, but for the most part, the firearms Navy Arms has imported in the past are among the better made.

IMO, the historical background of this type of gun is that many different companys in Great Britain and Belgium made similar guns in the mid 1800's.
If the barrel was a little shorter, it could be called a Pocket Pistol. These were often carried in the coat pocket.

In an old book titled ANTIQUE PISTOL BOOK (c. 1948) there are several drawings of similar pistols, many of them made in London.

Knowing you won't trust my load recommendation doesn't stop me from giving it anyway. :grin:

With the .36 caliber it would use a .350 diameter ball with a thin cloth patch (like .010 thick).
It will shoot either 2F or 3F Black powder or Pyrodex P or RS. The 3F or Pyrodex P would be the prefered powder.

As it is rather light weight, a powder load of between 15 and 20 grains will work fine.

The #11 percussion caps may be a little large but their use on this gun would not be hazardous.

I am suprised at the price. IMO, Companys like Dixie would charge in excess of $80 for something like this gun.

Zonie

PS: You can trust me. If you can't trust a Moderator, who can you trust? :grin:

 

[cdg]

OK, I guess I'll never live this one down. I should say that I'm wary of information I get off of forums. "Forum information" should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not saying that I will ignore your advice, but rather that I don't plan on relying strictly on what people say here. I hope this is not offensive, as it is not intended to be- it's just that I think in today's day and age that people tend to "google" or "ask forums" a little too much, and sometimes end up being screwed over by accident as a result... You should always be wary of what you hear on the internet. It's one of the best and worst places in the world at the same time, so you must be twice as careful...

P.S. while we're on the topic of loads (Zonie or anyone else who wants to chime in) what will make the smokiest, smelliest in terms of powder? 2F?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'd go with 15 or 20 grains of fffg to begin with. If I recall correctly, these pistols are made in China, so there may be some concerns as to quality. Caveat Emptor, as they say.

 

[cdg]

if they are made in China, that would preclude my purchasing one. I don't trust the quality, and I don't like the idea of supporting China any more then what I already have to. Don't want that to touch off any political debate- that is how I feel on the issue, you can feel how you feel... I was rather hoping they'd be made somewhere like the Czech Republic or some other place known for making firearms.

Well anyway I'm not sold on the little boot pistol yet anyway. I'm always stalking Auction Arms, although some sellers won't sell to an 18 year old. Anyway we'll see what works out. If I cand find something in the $80 range that looks solid and in decent enough shape, I will make a move. Thought about a CVA derringer, but looking at the barrel legnth kinda scares me. Looks like it would probably be more frustrating to shoot then anythign else...

Back to the origional topic, does anybody own one of the aforemntioned seven seas derringers to commont if it's really made in china?

 

[paulvallandigham]

unless you have very small hands, I would keep the powder charges light, and start with 10 grains of 3Fg, then go up to 12 grains of 3Fg powder. I don't think I would want to shoot more than 15 grains. I have a similar shaped grip on a CVA duckfoot pistol, and in my large hands, going up to even 20 grains makes this a handful, simply because my hands are too big to give a good firm grip to the gun when it fires. I have much larger caliber guns that are easier to shoot, simply because they have larger gripframes that fit my hand. Without sights, this gun is mostly a noise maker, as is my duckfoot. have fun with it, but don't try to turn it into some kind of Dirty Harry special!

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, first off, I'll say I must totally agree with you when you say a person should be very careful accepting advice on the Web.
There is more mis-information out there than you can shake a stick at.

As for Black Powder Muzzleloaders and information about them and the proper care and shooting of them, I must say that the Muzzleloading Forum is unique in that it has almost 7000 members and many of them post often.

Not only do they post often, but many, like myself have over 30 years of experiance with muzzleloading. The net effect of this is if anyone, anyone at all posts anything which the others feel is dangerous or wrong, they will jump on that post like flys on cow scat.

I dare say that there is more knowledge at this site than the total combined knowledge of all of the Factory gun book writers put together.

If someone posts "I shoot 200 grains of FFFg powder in my Dingledorf all the time." and someone else answers "Your an idiot and the only reason your gun hasn't blown up is because an angel is watching out for you." it is up to the reader to determine where the truth lies.

As for the "smokey and stinky" the powder size (like FFg or FFFg) has nothing to do with it.
Real Black Powder contains pretty much the same stuff. The percentage of Salt Peter varies a little and the type of charcoal is a little different between brands but they all make smoke and stink.
AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH!! Would you guys get off my back? OK OK...It Does NOT stink! It smells wonderous! :grin:

Zonie

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It smells like...history!

 

[rebel727]

It smells like...history!

I never thought about it like that but you're right. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: