Does anyone know when conical bullets first made a appearance in the New World?

[GAHUNTER60]

Just wondering why gunsmiths didn't figure out earlier that bullet lethality could be greatly increased by elongating the bullet to gain weight.

 

[tenngun]

I think it’s was accidental. The conicals were designed to work in a rifle, and low and behold it preformed better ballistically.
They tried several styles before. One used a steel pillar at the breech. The ball was loaded loose and then tapped with the ramrod till driven in to the rifling.
The Ferguson rifle too was made to take a ball.
Experiments with other ball designs previously did not work well. Square ball was used to kill Muslims but didn’t fly too straight.
For extra umph people loaded two or more ball. In Robinson Caroso written about 1710 records Robinson as loading five ball at one time. Fiction for sure but I think it reflects the thinking of the time.
Shooting ball would remain common in ML civilian guns until after the WBTS. The SMR made up until the 1930s were round ball guns, the trade ml made for the African trade through the 1960s were also RB guns. African cape guns too were common as RB guns till replaced by breechloaders and even after.

 

[nkbj]

Perhaps an advantage at greater distances such as provided by elongated bullets wasn't much in demand until westward expansion significantly changed the conditions experienced by hunters. I don't know, just thinking about it.

 

[mooman76]

Yes, could be they knew but didn't have or see a need. It would just use lead up faster.

 

[nkbj]

It would appear that "when" is lost to history but I've read we can document they were being used in the 1840's. So was it an innovation somehow related to the introduction of percussion caps? Don't know. I've enjoyed speculating on how interesting rifles might have become if the percussion cap technology had been delayed a couple of decades. Not saying someone would have come up with a flintlock "Whitworth" but something fun certainly would have evolved.

 

[GAHUNTER60]

I only ask this question because I've heard arguments on both sides claiming that conicals were in use during colonial times, but no one can cite any evidence.

 

[Josephg]

Are you guys talking about sugar loaf bullets?

 

[Daryl Crawford]

I've not read of conical used in colonial times, but I'm no expert on the topic. 1830s, yes, but not 1760s. Perhaps someone with more knowledge and research on the topic will come along with some quality references.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I'm sure they knew as soon as they figured out that pointy ended boats go through the water better than flat bowed ones. (Same with the exhaust on the back side producing drag.) I think the issue was more of projectile obturation and taking up the rifling, as witnessed by the Maxie and Minie ball bulletts. Certain projectiles were made in non-round shapes (Whitworth bullets, some cannon shells), and had to be fitted to the muzzle to match the shape to load them. Even the belted balls of the mid 1800's were an accommodation to that idea.

The advent of breech loaders let the balls be made to closer tolerances to the groove diameter so they could just swage in there.

 

[tenngun]

Building a model privateer right now and have a heavy ship of the line model
Well until the nineteenth century ships were made with round bows.
Aerodynamics were guessed at, but the connection wasn’t made.

 

[springfield art]

Building a model privateer right now and have a heavy ship of the line model
Well until the nineteenth century ships were made with round bows.
Aerodynamics were guessed at, but the connection wasn’t made. View attachment 71355View attachment 71356View attachment 71357View attachment 71358

Wow!

 

[springfield art]

Just wondering why gunsmiths didn't figure out earlier that bullet lethality could be greatly increased by elongating the bullet to gain weight.

There's a joke here somewhere, but I can't think one up. It's a good question, though! Will be looking for a serious answer!

 

[nkbj]

Are you guys talking about sugar loaf bullets?

I am at least in part. Elongated bullets called sugar loaf bullets were some of the early ideas.

 

[Zonie]

All of my reading about the subject seems to indicate that elongated bullets were an outgrowth of target shooting at long ranges.

As we all know, target shooters will try anything to improve the accuracy of their guns and at long distances, the roundball leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of experimenting went on in the 1830's and 1840's at the long range target shooting clubs in America and across the pond.

The long bullets and things like paper patching and "false muzzles" to facilitate loading them, was the result and this allowed very accurate shooting at very long ranges.

 

[springfield art]

Are you guys talking about sugar loaf bullets?

No, but one of my ex-wives made a meat-loaf as heavy as lead!

 

[Josephg]

No, but one of my ex-wives made a meat-loaf as heavy as lead!

Make a lot of sandwiches with a meatloaf like that, and easy to slice. No meatlof goes uneaten here.