Double Balling the smooth bore Trade Gun

[chuckpa]

I was visiting my favorite muzzle loading gun store yesterday and a gentleman told me that most of the hunters way back in the day double Balled thier guns when they were hunting bear or other hard to kill game. He said that you had to be sure not to leave an air space between the patched balls or you could blow up the barrel.I use a 20 gauge Trade Gun. Dose anybody have experience with these loads? How much powder etc? Any other comments on this practice would be appreciated.
Thanks Chuckpa

 

[Landngroove]

I myself have never double balled a load. Everything I have read about muzzleloading, says this is a dangerous practice. The second ball can act as a barrel obstruction, and bad things could happen. It just isn't worth it to me.

 

[rich pierce]

Not a good idea. Pressure is going to be much higher as is recoil. Velocity will go down. Better off with a well-placed shot and a fast horse.

 

[BS]

That is where the term: Loaded for Bear comes from. :grin:

 

[longfowler]

I've tried it before in a 50 cal flinter, and I lived to tell about it...it's scary! kicked like a mule & very inacurate. I also tried it in a walker revolver. all it does is waste good lead. and I definetly would NEVER try it in my smoothbore with it's thinwalled barrels. not that I'm chicken, but to me it's not worth it. If you need to shoot mulitple balls use buckshot!
I belive that the expression "loaded for bear" refers to a double powder charge, ie: 50 grs for target, 100grs for big game-well within the safty limits of even the older guns.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Some references I have seen to double ball loads, were to a double powder charge, not to the projectiles.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I too believe the "Loaded For Bear" deals more with powder volume than extra balls. Some years ago Lyman did some experiments with various projecticle types and photographed them on high-speed cameras to see wat was going on. Thin skirted Minie balls often had their skirts blown wide and looked like funnels. The double ball load showed both balls with large, flattened areas where the two balls touched each other at the time the load fired. Both balls showed shock waves angled back with the lead balls wave much more distinct. The balls shape alone would soon cause their trajectory to go badly off track. This type thing would only work up-close-and-personal! Even so, powder charge would have to be monitored very closely to prevent ringing the barrel if too much pressure built up when the powder exploded.

 

[lockjaw]

...caywood double ball bear

 

[john4645]

Thatn may be a double ball bear, but it aint no 400 pounds This public service message comes from Wisconsin bear country.

 

[BS]

Some references I have seen to double ball loads, were to a double powder charge, not to the projectiles.

When you double your maximun powder charge and your balls, that is a Proof Charger......and that would really be Loaded for Bear! :shocked2:

If you do some more reading, I think you will find that when the old timers headed into bear country with there little 50 and 54 cals, they put in two balls.

You may think a 54 is large, but I bet it feels like a BB gun, when face to face with a Grizz! :hmm:

 

[Toomuch_36]

I was visiting my favorite muzzle loading gun store yesterday and a gentleman told me that most of the hunters way back in the day double Balled thier guns when they were hunting bear or other hard to kill game. He said that you had to be sure not to leave an air space between the patched balls or you could blow up the barrel.I use a 20 gauge Trade Gun. Dose anybody have experience with these loads? How much powder etc? Any other comments on this practice would be appreciated.
Thanks Chuckpa

I have used this procedure in my CVA Ftontier hunting rifle on occasion, but not in my trade guns. The most common (and accurate) procedure for this is: using the same powder charge load the first ball "bare ball" then load the patched ball directly on top. There will be an increase in recoil as you now have twice the dead weight to push out the barrel. In a smooth bore the effective range would be less but in a rifle at 100 yd. the two balls will keyhole with little or no loss in accuracy.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[Swampman]

I've done it and probably would again in large bear country. Don't patch the first ball down the barrel.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I used to double ball one of my old fowlers for certain competitions. Standard powder charge followed by a bare ball followed by a patch ball. No big deal. They would hit 2" to 4" apart at 50 yards.
You can sure get a lot of balls on the target inside of the scoring rings in a timed event using this method! :haha:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I believe the original post was right, there is no danger so long as there is no air space between balls and I think it was a common practice. I accidently loaded twice at a recent shoot, 60 gr. 3f, patched .490 ball then another 60 gr. and another PRB. Hit that 100 yard gong and it sure did ring! Recoil was noticable but not severe. If you think about it, two roundballs are still not so heavy as some .50 caliber conicals and I guess the second powder charge never ignited, thankfully! :haha:

 

[Toomuch_36]

I used to double ball one of my old fowlers for certain competitions. Standard powder charge followed by a bare ball followed by a patch ball. No big deal. They would hit 2" to 4" apart at 50 yards.
You can sure get a lot of balls on the target inside of the scoring rings in a timed event using this method! :haha:

This also works very well in a steak shoot competition, takes out a lot of wood in a short time. :v

Toomuch
.........
Shoot Flint

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

Not a good idea. Pressure is going to be much higher as is recoil. Velocity will go down. Better off with a well-placed shot and a fast horse.

:hmm:
If'n ya don't have no hoss, be sure ya gots a huntin' pardner that SHOOTS GOOD. :thumbsup: But just in case he don't make a good shot when he hasta'; Make sure ya kin outrun 'im. :winking: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Wes/Tex]

If you want a real stake buster, try a reversed .69" Minie in a .70 bore Potsdam Musket! Shoot first and tell the troops to aim at the stake along a line horizontal to your wood crater!!

 

[colmoultrie]

What's next, Chuck, bar shot? Actually, if you used a paper shotcup, I'll bet you could make one heck of a flechette round! (Someone might, however, wonder where all her sewing needles went) :hmm:

The two-ball method sounds like it has some potential. Have you gotten yourself a .595 or .600 mould yet? If not, it sounds like an expensive proposition...

 

[colmoultrie]

I do envy you being so close to Dixon's!

 

[rickystl]

I have read where many original Cival War muskets excavated from battlefields, which were still loaded, some had double and triple minie balls in the barrel. :shocked2: I wonder if it was intentional or stress during the heat of battle?