Double barrel age

[lizz]

This is a old double, not sure how old.
It has back action locks marked P POWELL & Son.
Under the barrels there is 3 touch marks.
----crown over BP or PP
----crown over cross swords
----crown over cross swords with P or B on left side of swords, C on right side of swords, and ?[cant tell] under swords.
On the top rib is marked LONDON FINE TWIST
The bores are dark but not much pitting.
It is missing a bridle screw in one lock that I need to replace. Any ideas?
So would anyone have an age on the gun? Thanks

 

[lizz]

I forgot to mention locks are precusion.

 

[torn moc]

I would venture to late 1860-1880's.
Could you post a photo?

 

[lizz]

Scalper; I'll try to get a picture up but I'll have to sweet talk my wife. I can't do it. Try in a day or two.

 

P - for Palemon - Powell started as a gunsmith in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1835 - here's a double barrel made/sold by them http://www.cowanauctions.com/upcoming_dates_view_item.asp?ItemId=38944&AuctionName=

P. Powell and Sons are listed in the 1850 St. Louis Business Directory as a seller of hardware, firearms, firearms parts, and cutlery.

They were still in business in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1875 - here's a link to some info on their 1875 catalog - http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates/PPowell-1875.htm
(the St.Louis store was most likely an outlet of the Ohio store)

While Powell was a gunsmith, it was "standard" during that time for concerns such as Powell to have guns (especially double barrels) and parts made in Europe stamped with their name on them ala the way Sears and JC Penny used to do, so the gun may not have been built by Powell.
There is an original Hawken pistol with a Powell lock on it.
The three touckmarks on the barrel are most likely proof marks and/or manufacturers marks.
The London Fine Twist means it is a Damascus barrel so user beware - many fine old twist/Damascus barrels are just fine to shoot, but they can be problematic so it is best to have a Qualified smith(and by qualified I mean a smith who is more than just familiar with Damascus barrels) check it out before shooting.
The Double Gun Journal site has good info for those wishing/choosing to shoot a Damascus barreled gun.

Date wise the proof/touch marks should be able to help date it (at least the earliest year). Back action locks have been around since the 1830's so that in itself won't necessarily help date this. Pictures would help....

 

[lizz]

Gray Wolf; That was very interesting. The first pisture has the trigger gaurd and entry thimble looking very similar. This gun has the brake open lever on the top unlike the second drawing add. Over all the gun is in very good shape BUT with the damascas barrels I think I'll just leave it set. Even though the guy I got it from did use it for hunting. I do want to post a picture if I or my wife can figure it out. Thanks a lot for the info that was great. Doc

 

your welcome Doc - you mentioned a top lever - is it a cartrdge gun? If so date wise yours would most likely be post 1870..

 

[lizz]

NO my mistake IT IS a muzzleloader. :redface: :redface:

That kind of through a wrench in the gear for a second.

I also have a old break open, why I was thinking of that I have no idea. The add showed a break lever, my mined went in that direction I guess.

 

[mmahlock]

----crown over cross swords with P or B on left side of swords, C on right side of swords, and ?[cant tell] under swords.

I don't have any data yet on the first two marks but this one sounds like this is what it is supposed to look like.

If this is the mark then it came from Birmingham from 1813 through 1904. The other two sound like earlier Birmingham Proof Marks. :hatsoff:

 

For some VERY good info on Damascus Barrels see here - http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home

 

[lizz]

That looks like the one set of marks.
The bottom letter is hard to make out even with a magnafing glass, I"ll try steal wool to brighten it up a bit. Still working on pictures.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Doc Or: DON'T use steel wool on that barrel PLEASE!

Instead, take paper, and a pencil, put the paper on top of the marks, and do a pencil rub of the marks onto the paper. You actually will see more with the rub, than if you did use steel wool on the marks.

 

[lizz]

Paul; good idea on the paper. I gave it a couple of tries but the stamp is so small and deep that it won't pick up the letters. I did get it cleaned up enough [ alot of gunk in it] to get a clearer view with the magnifing glass. I used a little cleaner and Qutips. It is B,C,P. Doc

 

[lizz]

I hope these pictures will work.