Dragoon repair, any suggestions?

A friend has an older Italian copy of a .44 Colt 3rd model Dragoon that is in need of repair. The piece is marked GARDONE V.T. - BRESCIA. The cylinder is locked up tight. He bought it from a company called SWC back in the early 1980's. I suspect its an early Armi San Marco. He used to shoot 40 grains of real FFg BP behind a round ball, till the mechanics went bad. It was a real straight shooter.

So who would you Gents recommend for such repair work?

Claypipe

 

[torn moc]

Look at this DISASSEMBLY VIDEO,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XejAypMHH2Y
ther is not much to them ! fiddle with it nd read on the forum and I bet he can fix it himself!
More thank likley the problem is a cap fragment that has fallen into the frame and bound up the workings....

 

[denster]

Scalper is right there is not much to them. As to the cylinder being bound up, if thet is the problem, If it hasn't been used for awhile and maybe was not properly cleaned or stored you might have some corosion freezing it to the arbor.
Dissasemble it as far as you can to make sure that is the problem and not something in the works like scalper said. If the cylinder is frozen a good soak with penetrating oil will most likely work if not the judicious application of some heat to the cylinder and more penetrating oil should get it.

 

[mazo kid]

Good suggestions posted for you. It could be something as simple as the wedge driven in too tight!? That is where I would start....

 

[torn moc]

very good Mazo! wow...too tight a wedge never occurred to me...must be gettin old timers disease. :idunno:

 

[torn moc]

Ok....a new question has cme to my attention:
Will Uberti dragoon parts work in a ASM Dragoon? or maybe a San Marco Dragoon???
or will they require "fitting" ?

I just assumed they would interchange...
perhaps I am incorrect? Does anyone know?

 

[texcl]

The old colts are pretty simple I repaired my first one when I was 14. I used to buy all my parts from dixie but now there are alot of suppliers. Those old flat trigger springs were always the first thing to go out on mine.

 

[phoenix511]

If there is a stuck cap fragment, usually you can wiggle and twist the cylinder until it drops free.

Another possible cause of a locked-up cylinder is that a capped but very small/no charge was placed, causing the ball to move part way into the forcing cone. Even after removing the wedge, the cylinder remains stuck to the barrel.

You can check this condition by sight: if there is no space between the cylinder and barrel, this may be the condition. If there is a ball stuck, you can pound it back (wood or brass rod) into the cylinder and remove the barrel. (PLEASE don't use a screwdriver!)

Now the problem is removing the stuck ball in the chamber, which can be done by removing the nipple and adding some 4Fg, and shooting it out, or trying a 1/4" brass rod and pounding the ball out while the cylinder is supported on a slightly open vise with the nipple removed. (PLEASE don't use a screwdriver!)

 

[mykeal]

Ok....a new question has cme to my attention:
Will Uberti dragoon parts work in a ASM Dragoon? or maybe a San Marco Dragoon???
or will they require "fitting" ?

I just assumed they would interchange...
perhaps I am incorrect? Does anyone know?

They will probably require fitting. Unlikely they will drop in. Sometimes Uberti parts require fitting in Uberti guns.

 

Look at this DISASSEMBLY VIDEO,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XejAypMHH2Y
ther is not much to them ! fiddle with it nd read on the forum and I bet he can fix it himself!
More thank likley the problem is a cap fragment that has fallen into the frame and bound up the workings....

No cap fragments, gun is clean enough to eat out of. I know he use to shoot some heavy loads out of it. I'd fiddle with it myself, but, rather not.

CP

 

Good suggestions posted for you. It could be something as simple as the wedge driven in too tight!? That is where I would start....

Nope, wedge is fine, barrel cylinder gap is within safe parameters. It vexes me that I can't figure it out myself.

CP

 

[denster]

With all that checked and the cylinder won't rotate it's time to hit it with the penetrating oil.

 

With all that checked and the cylinder won't rotate it's time to hit it with the penetrating oil.

As I said, the gun is clean enough to eat out of. No rust. I am stumped on this one.

CP

 

[Zonie]

If you look thru the space between the frame and the bottom of the cylinder you can probably see the cylinder locking bolt sticking up into the cylinders slot.

If you can cock the hammer part way you should see this bolt retract into the frame. If it doesn't retract the problem is either with the bolt or the cam on the hammer.

To find out which you will have to remove the rear grip strap and wood grip and then loosen the screw that holds the mainspring to the front grip strap/trigger guard.
With the screw loosened (but not removed) rotate the mainspring out from under the hammer. Then remove the three screws that hold the triggerguard/front grip strap and remove it.

Removing the trigger/bolt spring is a matter of removing the screw. Make a sketch of how that spring was installed so you don't put it in backwards when you reassemble the gun.

Removing the bolt screw should allow the bolt to drop free of the cylinder. That should free it so that it can rotate freely.

The cylinder locking bolt that you just removed has a leg on it that is supposed to engage a cam on the hammer. If that leg is broken it would explain why the bolt isn't releasing the cylinder.

Replacement cylinder bolts are available from Dixie Gunworks. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advan...2b91bdef6aae039a746fc&keywords=MP0312&x=6&y=7

 

[nilo52]

Take It Apart, Put It Back Togather Again. It Will Work Fine. ( look At Disasembly Video) . Only Thing That could be Wrong is something Broken/Stuck I'm Thinking. :idunno:

 

[madcratebuilder]

Is the hand rotating the cylinder before the bolt drops? That well bind it. Put more preload on the bolt leg at the cam button.

 

[denster]

Maybe I misunderstood. I thought the cylinder was frozen on the arbor. If it is not and you can take it off you can watch the bolt retract as you cycle the revolver. It should start to lower right as or within a degree or so of starting to pull back the hammer and go clear below the frame. If it does not then you likely have a broken bolt leg. If it does then you likely have a broken hand spring.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think Zonie nailed it, the leg of the locking bolt is broken and thus won't disengage to free the cylinder. As others have said, they are pretty simple to figure out but if you don't want to mess with it any local gunsmith or half-assed tinkerer like me can do it.

 

[pargent]

strip it as mentioned and check for spent caps stuck in the works just another possibility ,a common fault :thumbsup:

 

[44-henry]

I made a bolt for one of those old Italian dragoons years back that broke on me. I remember ordering a replacement from Dixie that was so far off in fit that it was easier to saw one out of barstock and fit it myself. It took some doing but it worked.