Drilling the Breech out on a Blue Ridge and other improvements?

[ballandcap]

I have a Cabelas Blue Ridge rifle in a .36 cal and have read people drill out the patent breech from 5/16"-3/8" and aids in quickness and reliability. Well all of the posts were 3/8" except 1 guy said 5/16". I know that little breech gets some serious fouling in there pretty quick too! My scraper or brush doesn't come close to fitting down there.

Does anybody have any pics of the work they've done during their process, or a tutorial? I am fairly handy if needed but have never done anything like this. Is it as simple as putting the barell in a padded vice and unscrewing the breech plug and tang? Then drilling through and then polishing the inside of the breech maybe?

The gun was bought in 09 from Cabelas, not sure if any design has changed? Looking in with T.H. liner removed it all looks to be part of the barell, but maybe once the breech plug unscrews the back will be open and hollow?

Any other improvements for this gun? I have read drill out the T.H. to 1/16, but it is coned both sides and looks to be abot that already? Have read the liner is too long and may impede powder into chamber causing missfires? Also have read to file/grind down the frizzen spring, then polish?

Guess we could all share tips on this thread for the Blue Ridge owners and may answer a lot of questions in the future. I've searched for hours and read all the Blue Ridge posts I could find.

Was just out at the range and had about 6 or 7 missfires, brand new knapped english flint. The pan always went off and the gun fired after repriming except for once and had to light a third pan. I know the ball was seated tight and verified after the missfire my poking and feeling powder to make sure I didn't dry ball. I cleaned every 5 shots and scraped the breech the best I could with a pick, then dumped out the barrel, then proceeded to run patches down until clean. Also it was a little slow and not as quick as it should or could be, compared to Renegade, or custom flinter. The accuracy sure didn't seem there either. I was on a bench, at the range, very calm day, wasn't flinching (I know because of all the missfires and didn't budge a bit, very happy about that)and had a great 3 second follow though.... even on the missfires.

Any other tips or improvements for the B.R. lets have them :bow:

 

[sc45-70]

I've done several.
Remove the vent, unscrew breech plug and enlarge the existing hole. Sometimes the breech plug can be tough to remove!

Caution! on a 36 cal. DO NOT enlarge the hole to 3/8 inch or your cleaning patches and jag will get stuck and you may have to remove the breech plug to get it out! You are creation a powder chamber and the chamber must be smaller than the bore!

Use anti sieze on the breech plug and vent when installing.

SC45-70

 

[ballandcap]

unfortunately I'll have up to a couple of weeks to do some tweeks to this gun. So I hope I can do a few improvements in the mean time. It seems as though my replacement Pedersoli lock I JUST recieved for this gun likes to missbehave already. The sear gets hung up on the fly instead of gliding across it when I pull the trigger now It has already worn a flat spot on the front of the sear, kinda scary. I have to force the hammer forward or squeeze the trigger again (pretty hard)to get the hammer to move forward the rest of the way. The lock lasted one shooting session. Not sure it wasn't hardened properly, or just had a bad angle on the sear from the factory. I hate to send it off, but hate to grind the sear, repolish and mess up the geomoetry.

So off it will go for warranty work and hopefully it doesn't get lost this time. Some guys have all the luck LOL!

 

[Stumpkiller]

How do you get the ignition channel to the bottom of the hole in the breech? If you are introducing the ignition ahead of the breech cavity you're not adding anything except more difficult cleaning. (IMHO).

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have read drill out the T.H. to 1/16, but it is coned both sides and looks to be abot that already?

'about that'? Just take a 1/16" drill and see if it will slide into the hole.
The liner should not protrude into the barrel at all. It should be flush with both inside and outside of barrel. If you do debreech, that should be the first thing you look at and correct if needed.
I won't comment on debreeching as some factory made gun have unusual surprises built into them. Someone who has worked on these can comment.
However, keep in mind, this an inexpensive factory made rifle. Improvements may be possible but investing too much time and money into it could possibly be spent on a nice custom or semi-custom gun instead.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think your "lock problem" may be an inleting problem. Something is preventing the sear from pivoting as far as it should. With th lock out of the wood, take it to full cock and while holding tension on the hammer, release the sear to let the hammer down slowly while you study the movement of the parts. It will help to have a third hand or secure the lock in a vise. The damage you've noted would be the result of forcing the hammer down past the interference. It is common to encounter some "drag" as the sear tip rides over the fly and often the fly is longer than it really needs to be but what you describe is way beyond that.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Here are a couple of photos of a Pedersoli Breech plug, this is percussion but the flint is the same except a vent liner instead of a nipple drum.
The original powder chamber is about .22 caliber, the grid lines on the photo are 1/4".

 

[ebiggs1]

I wouldn't get too caught up with some of the information about factory guns from certain forum members.
I do not have a Blue Ridge in 36 but I do have a 50 and a 54. My advise is best leave them alone. And most certainly do NOT remove the breech plug. Here is what they look like and you can see what you have been told is inaccurate. The 6mm hole goes directly into the powder chamber. The touch hole liner is the proper length.

So what can you do to make is shoot? Is your touch hole drilled with a #50 or #51 drill and is it coned?

Do you use oversize flints? Here is one of mine with a big French Amber flint. Also I shim the cock out with a flat washer since the cock is not centered very well. This lets you make use of that big frizzen better.

Does you lock look like mine?

While on topic, do NOT mess with the springs. They are too strong and all Pedersoli owners know that. But too strong is better than too weak. They do seem to lighten up some after a couple thousand shots!

Just try my tips and see if they work before you do irreversible measures. I don't have a 36 as I stated above but I don't swab between shots as I think swabbing, if done incorrectly, causes more problems than it fixes. Especially as the caliber gets smaller, ie 36 vs 54. Go shoot your gun. :thumbsup:

Oh, BTW, use 3f GOEX and 4f prime.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I solved my pedroseli misfire problem by drilling the breech out to .375. (mine is a 45 caliber). I simply removed the vent liner. Used a special ground flat bottom end cutting reamer with 1/16 45 degree cornors ( I made the reamer myself from a standard 3/8 reamer using a monoset tool grinder ) That had the shank tapped 10/32 and a .445 duralaun guide bushing installed. I then screwed the reamer onto a brass ramrod using a common 10/32 set screw and SLOWLY drilled out the breech plug without removing the breech from the barrel. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[ballandcap]

Wow, I sure thought there were more people doing this? I’ve seen lots of threads when people are talking about drilling the breech a larger diameter (not making it deeper past the touch hole), basically enlarging the channel into the powder chamber. Still not quite sure just what Stumpkiller is referring to or interpreting? Heck I’m probably misinterpreting his comment”¦. I’m not sure the size of the channel, but is a fraction of the bore size. Also shortening liner, enlarging liner hole, grinding/thinning spring and so on.

Thanks for the responses.
SC good info, thank you and good tip about not the same size as the bore. One post I'd read was someone who had a .36 and they drilled to 3/8" "basically the same size as the bore".

Coyote Joe, the lock hung up whether in the stock or not. I did as you were saying looking at the contact points as I let it up slow and the flat spot stopped directly on the fly instead of gliding across like my other locks I looked at side by side out of their stocks at the same time. Inletting has plenty of clearance and not binding. The flat spot on the sear was caused from the fly flying and getting jammed on the face of the sear stopping it dead. I pulled it out of the stock before any forcing was done however. Took the lock to a fellow flinter last night, took it apart, smoothed out the flat spot on the sear, polished the sear and fly a little and isn’t getting hung up now. He initially noticed some of the lock screws were too loose, possibly causing a little of a bad angle and starting the problem. May just be poor geometry on the sear. He also said the fly is MUCH longer than it should be. Flat spot was on the sear only, nothing on the fly, guess its much softer. It’s working for now though! Thank you for the pics, that gives me a look inside without having to de breech.

Ebiggs
Yes same liner, I think we got our guns at the same time, first quarter of 09. It’s not 1/16”, bit will not quite fit in. Guess about the only Mod. I’ll do for now is drill that to 1/16”
Yes I use the large flints. 7/8x1” Tom Fuller English Flints. Sparks pretty good, and pan ignition wasn’t the problem. My jaw is a touch to the I/S may consider shimming out with a washer too. Did you use a brass washer or just stainless? What size and thickness?
Yes my lock and everything looks the same.
3f in barrel and always 4f in my pan. T.H. cleared and picked after every single shot.
Other than that everything else should be the same. Went to shoot today but range was closed due to a few puddles on the range, go figure.
I'll shoot it this weekend and see how it goes.

 

[ballandcap]

Ohio, I can't quite picture excatly what your describing for the life of me right now LOL :haha: That's good you were able to drill out w/o removing your breech! Good deal and encouraging!

So what missfire problems were you having? Did this solve your problem 100%? The missfires I had should not have happened, but I always feel that way. I feel I did my part and pan always ignited. There is definitely a little hang time when it goes boom.

 

[sc45-70]

Not all pedersoli breech plugs are the same!
Here is a picture of a FLINTLOCK Blueridge that I cut away to show.

The channel between the vent and the barrel is only about .175 inch in diameter.

I've fixed several Flintlock blueridge rifles by enlarging the channel!

SC45-70

 

[Stumpkiller]

Still not quite sure just what Stumpkiller is referring to or interpreting? Heck I’m probably misinterpreting his comment”¦.

Nope. I misinterpreted the breech. I didn't realize until I saw CoyoteJoe's image that it has a recessed plug like that. I thought you were working backwards from a solid/flush faced breech plug. :redface:

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

 

[ebiggs1]

Yes same liner, I think we got our guns at the same time, first quarter of 09. It’s not 1/16”, bit will not quite fit in. Guess about the only Mod. I’ll do for now is drill that to 1/16”

If you will only try a larger touch hole, like the #50 or even the #51, I bet your issues will be gone. If not, a new touch hole liner is pretty cheap and you can go back the way it was. Go for it, you ain't got nuthin to lose. Well just a liner. :grin:

 

[sc45-70]

Drilling the vent out slightly larger will help if you are getting powder down to the vent.

The problem some Pedersoli flintlocks have is that when pouring the powder down the barrel (especially a just cleaned barrel) the powder forms a bridge over the small hole in the breech plug and never gets the powder chamber full all the way to the vent.

You can check for this problem next time you shoot. Just shoot and clean as you normally do.
After several shots and maybe a cleaning.
MAKE SURE YOUR GUN IS UNLOADED! Remove the lock and vent being very carful not to loose the vent or lock screws.

Put a small piece of masking tape over the threaded vent hole in the barrel.

Now pour a powder charge down the barrel, carefully remove the tape and see if it fills the breech chamber all the way to the vent. If not the channel in the breech plug is to small and will need to be enlarged to make your rifle reliable!

Now dump the powder from the barrel into a container and measure it again to make sure you got it all out of the barrel (you may need to use a scraper to get it all out) and reassemble your rifle.

SC45-70

 

[ballandcap]

Ebiggs, took a 1/16" bit to the liner last night, it was Barely not quite 1/16", but is now. Can't see this fixing my problem but will give it a shot. So just how big is a #50, or #51 bit :redface: ? 1/16? Maybe a touch bigger?

SC thank you for the pic, that definitely helps, and looked similar through the vent hole except the channel is on the opposing side, end of the open liner side. That liner sure is long! I was thinking the exact same thing about the powder bridging and maybe not all be getting down channel to the chamber creating a void or something. Great tip on the tape test powder trick! May not be able to do that at the public range, maybe when I get home from shooting? Guess I'll start out by loading 3F slower, more of a barrel angle and bang the butt on the ground to see if this helps to fill the chamber. I usually just dump the 25+ grains as fast as I can tip up the powder measure. Any other tips keep em coming. Thanks Gentlemen! :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

1/16" is .0625". That's 62 1/2 thousandths of an inch.

A #51 drill is .067" in diameter. That's an increase of 7.2 percent in size over the 1/16" drill but the open area of the hole is 15 percent larger than the hole made by a 1/16" drill.

A #50 drill is .070" in diameter. That's an increase of 12 percent in size over the 1/16" drill but the open area of the hole it makes is 25.4 percent larger than the hole made by a 1/16" drill.

I mention the area of the hole because that is what the flame front from the pans flash must pass thru to get to the main powder charge.

It is also directly tied to the amount of hot powder gas that will be blown out of the vent when the gun fires.

Perhaps more importantly with guns that have a connecting channel between the breech and the vent hole, that is the area that the air in the barrel will escape thru when you ram the ball down the barrel.
The bigger the hole, the faster the air will blow out while ramming the ball so the better it will blow the loose powder in the main powder charge down to the vent.

 

[paulvallandigham]

DRill charts that translate NUMBER drills into thousandths of an inch, or finer, are available on the internet, and are often FREE at hardware stores. I still have my STARRETT Co. Pocket size drill chart which I use as a reference all the time.

Since this issue of TH Size comes up frequently here, I can give you this relevant info:

1/16" = .0625"
#52 = .0635"
#51 = .0670"
#50 = .0700"
#49 = .0730"
#48 = .0760"
5/64" = .0781"

As you read through posts on this forum, you will see references to 1/16", as a beginning small diameter, and 5/64" as the largest size recommended.

I have a lock that required me to ultimately open the TH up to 5/64", but I arrived there over about a year of testing, beginning at 1/16", and then opening the TH up One Size at a Time, and repeating my testing, until I had used all the drill sizes between 1/16 and 5/64". My ignition hick-ups with that lock ended when I reached 5/64".

In my experience, most locks don't have to have that large a TH to function reliably. Usually, when you open the TH up to .0700"( #50 drill) ignition problems go away. BUT, I have run into several locks that simply would not fire reliably when the TH was only 1/16" or smaller. :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

Ebiggs, took a 1/16" bit to the liner last night, it was Barely not quite 1/16", but is now. Can't see this fixing my problem but will give it a shot. So just how big is a #50, or #51 bit ? 1/16? Maybe a touch bigger?

1/16th is not big enough! :wink:

 

[Swede50]

Something not mentioned on reliable ignition is not to use a sloppy wet patch when swabbing the barrel. If you get to wet inside the breach the rifle may not fire. I had this trouble with my TC Flint lock I switched to Windex for the cleaning patch. I also put my finger over the touch hole and pour about an ounce of rubbing alcohol after every ten shots or so then re-swab with a dry patch. It may not be necessary but my TC Flint Lock dose not give me any misfires any more. (Well at least not yet)