Drinking habits, then and now.

[TN.Frank]

While doing a bit of research on making Hard Cider I ran across some info. about how Hard Cider used to be the "drink of the working man" and how today it's changed to beer. This got me to thinkin', seems like "back in the day"(1770's day that is) Tea, Hard Cider and Rum seemed to be the drinks of choice for us here in America, now we've switched to coffee, beer and whiskey. Any reason as to why the change or when this change took place. :hmm:

 

[Ridge]

Well, I know the coffee started during the Rev war as a sort of "screw you" to British tea.

Bourbon started when someone tried to age scotch in an oak barrel they had burned clean.

Beer........well, we've always liked beer. The Pilgrams had beer.

 

[TN.Frank]

http://mason.gmu.edu/~drwillia/cider.html
Here's a link to the artical that got me to thinking about all of this. :hmm:

 

[Legionair]

Well, hard cider is easier to make than beer.

Whiskey is harder to make than rum, but once you've got the still.... beer should be easy.

I personally prefer hard cider.... but don't mind a whiskey now and then.....

Legion

 

[mikee51848]

Any reason as to why the change or when this change took place. :hmm:

Because the advertising and marketing world said so?

 

[Sutallee]

My grandfather was what is called a “blockader” around the Southern mountains. That is, he made illegal corn whiskey from scratch. He taught me just a little about such things.

In his day, (early to mid 1900s) it was common for most men and many women to drink corn whiskey on a casual basis. The reasons were mostly economic. Tax paid “store whiskey” was expensive and because of the poor transportation systems available, it was hard to ship into the mountains. There were also a lot of dry laws. Especially during the depression, there was just no cash to spend on legal whiskey when anyone with a little ambition and know how could make corn whiskey on his own.

The reason that corn whiskey was more common than wine or beer is again economics. Distilling corn whiskey is simple and cheap and requires a minimum of cash to get started. Anyone with a strong back and a little sense can do it. If the law cuts down your still, you can get started again in a few days with a few dollars. Corn was and still is a primary crop in the mountains. In a pinch, you could also use any grain, any fruit with at least a moderate sugar content, honey, or any cane syrup. So, the primary raw materials were plentiful and cheap. Whiskey can be drunk when it exits the still, but beer and wine rake a considerable time to prepare and age. All these things made whiskey cheap and popular.

Homemade corn whiskey is still made in the Southern mountains, but pressure from the ATF, repeal of dry laws, and simple economics have almost killed it off. Mass produced beer and whiskey is now cheaper, even after taxes, than corn whiskey, and is much safer.

 

[Henry]

Rhum was popular because
of the " triangular market " : large boat of the
time had square sails ( compared to the 19 th cent.
clippers ) and fared better with back wind
Seasonal changes in the " trade winds " were
used to carry goods from the Caribean , to Europe
and to America . I guess that it was cheaper to
come back from Jamaica with a load of rhum than to carry it all the way from England ? Perhaps even cheaper than making whiskey in América ? When the United States became independant , the change in
price made wiskey cheaper than rhum ?

Hard cider .... have you ever been drunk with hard cider ? :hmm:

 

[rmonday2]

Thanks for sharing the link on hard cider.
It would appear this person has done an extensive research on the subject.
economics historian maybe? :hmm:

 

[DCF]

In Britain cider was once the farm workers drink and is generally associated with a surplus of apples! It’s easy to make and it’s the cheap way of producing alcohol. You don’t need malting barns and hops just a lot of apples. In northern France there seems to be a parallel of cider production and drinking.
That’s why in Devon and Cornwall there is a lot of “scrumpy” cider around. Scrumpy is a small volume farmhouse version of cider”¦.usually associated with lots of non specific bits wandering around in it.

Trust me you DON’T want to get drunk on scrumpy cider.

I wonder if the change is due to the development of industry/consumerism instead of farmhouse based “make everything yourself” stuff?

 

1. Whisky- Corn was the main agricultural product of the American farmer. Anyone could grow corn so the market for surplus corn was limited. Some people, espically the Scotch/Irish made excellent whisky that was easier to transport and quicker to sell than the corn it came from. A form of condensed corn/a way to preserve the calories in a easy to transport package.

Rum had to be shipped in from the sugar producing areas at an increased price to the colonies. Whisky could be floated out on rafts or consumed on the spot.

Burbon can only legally be made in Burbon county KY. Anything else from anywhere else is just whisky. The flavor and color comes from the use of burned oak barrels. The first use of the burned barrels was accedental but the result was good and the New Orleans market demanded more burned whisky.

2. Beer over cider was a result of the polluted water in the urban areas. Beer was boiled during brewing and therefore safer to consume than water and easier to produce in large quantities for the family or public. It could be drank "green" with no need for aging like good cider required.

Cider was a seasonal drink depending on the presence of a good crop of apples. There just wern't enough apples for cider to be anyone's national drink. The best of hard ciders required a good frost on the barrels which restricted the drink to a seasonal beverage. It also required a surplus of "good" apples, where beer/ale could have various flavors added to cover a rough batch.

Beer was usually produced on the spot by the women of each family so the content and quality varried greatly.

Every tavern brewed its own and several of the early gunmakers doubled as tavern keepers. Brewing and gunmaking went hand in hand.

 

[shmrck1]

Any reason as to why the change or when this change took place.

Frank,
As to the tea I would think a lot of
it had to do with removing the King's men. If
that had not been a part of our history we would
still be having tea times rather than coffee
breaks.
As to the alcoholic drinks, a lot can be
attributed to prohibition. The "Mob" made beer
and whiskey a very popular drink. They made the
beer and smuggled the hard liquor with the help
of such rich famalies as the Kennedy's who got
rich smuggling rum out of the Southern Islands and whiskey out of Canada. Just an opinion!
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[2172]

the makers of Elijah Craig Bourbon claim that the Rev. Elijah Craig was the chap who used the burned bbls and created bourbon. I think Ghost has everything right, but I wonder about "bourbon can only be legally made in bourbon county" We don't have the French appelation system...Hank

 

[Claude Mathis]

I think Ghost has everything right, but I wonder about "bourbon can only be legally made in bourbon county" We don't have the French appelation system...Hank

From "A History of Bourbon"...

Straight Kentucky Bourbon is to blended whiskey what a demarcated wine is to ordinary table wine. It takes its name from Bourbon county, Kentucky, once the major transshipment site for distilled spirits heading down the Ohio and Mississippi rivers to New Orleans. Barrels shipped from its ports were stamped with the county's name, and Bourbon and whiskey soon became synonymous. Today, 90 percent of all Bourbon is made in Kentucky, most of it in Jefferson, Franklin, Nelson, and Anderson counties, the heart of Bluegrass Country.

As with French-appellation wines, there are strict laws governing just what a Bourbon must be to be labeled as such. For example, at least 51 percent of the grain used in making the whiskey must be corn (most distillers use 65 to 75 percent corn). Bourbon must be aged for a minimum of two years in new, white oak barrels that have been charred. Nothing can be added at bottling to enhance flavor, add sweetness or alter color. Though technically Bourbon can be made anywhere, Kentucky is the only state allowed to put its name on the bottle. And as Kentucky distillers are quick to point out, Bourbon is not Bourbon unless the label says so.

Therefore, some very fine American whiskeys aren't called Kentucky Bourbon. Many look the same, and some even taste very similar, depending on their production style. Jack Daniels, a Tennessee sour mash whiskey, however, is charcoal-filtered, which many experts say gives it a different character. But up to and after the charcoal filtering, the Jack Daniels's production is much the same as any other Bourbon. Gentleman Jack, a superpremium entry into the whiskey field, also doesn't carry a Kentucky Bourbon designation.

 

[Henry]

I see that people of this forum take their
drinking habits seriously :shocked2:

Much interesting informations here ! :hmm:

Few more stones to the monument :
" ...Trust me you DON’T want to get drunk on scrumpy cider. ... "

So in the interest of those who do not want to experiment , hard cider also has a laxative
effect and produce some of the strongest headaches
the next morning .

The best tasting traditionnal cider has
an alcool content around 4 ° ( 4% by volume
a bit less % by weight and around 8° " proof "
whatever the scale used ) but at 4 % it does not
keep as well as wine or beer , so most countries
ask for an alcool content over 6% to be sold
on the market , sugar ( fructose etc )
must be added wich is thought to be the
offender in those headaches .

 

I was good and close anyway!!!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

I think I was quoting a distillery worker in my pervious post. It was a late night campfire conversation inspired by the presence of some of his "wares", so I will not swear to the accuracy of my memory or his statement.

He was supplying the premium efforts of his firm and I was not about to argue with him.

There are as many myths attached to whisky making as there are to muzzleloading.

:hatsoff:

 

[TN.Frank]

Methenol is the reason that you get a headache from drinking. Ethenol is the "alcohol" that gets you drunk. Apple juice unfermented has a high methenol content so when you ferment it you get even more methenol and thus more of a chance to get a headache. When you distill whiskey or rum you take off the "forshots" which contains the methenol and only start to catch when the ethenol starts to come off. I've done a bit of small scale distilling(illegal or not I'm a FREE Southern American and will do as I please, thank you very much) and making whiskey is fairly easy but making hard cider is even easier(no need to run it off in a still) and it's legal. Beer, on the other hand, looks like it'd be quite hard to make especially living in a small town where you can't get all the stuff you need to make it. Personally, I like Tea, Cider and Whiskey or Rum. :thumbsup:

 

[Henry]

Good wine is the work of the grape grower
Good beer is the work of the brewer ,
and , yes, it is a bit of work , a lot of it
cleaning and sanitising the equipment .

Distilling hard cider produce a good brandy
called " Calvados " for the part of Normandy
where the best one is still made
[url] http://www.saq.com/pls/devsaq..._cate=SBP&p_type_sous_regi=&p_url_retour[/url]=

 

Rhum was popular because
of the " triangular market " : large boat of the
time had square sails ( compared to the 19 th cent.
clippers ) and fared better with back wind
Seasonal changes in the " trade winds " were
used to carry goods from the Caribean , to Europe
and to America . I guess that it was cheaper to
come back from Jamaica with a load of rhum than to carry it all the way from England ? Perhaps even cheaper than making whiskey in América ? When the United States became independant , the change in
price made wiskey cheaper than rhum ?

Hard cider .... have you ever been drunk with hard cider ? :hmm:

The Triangle Trade was rum from New England to Africa, traded for slaves; slaves transported to the Carribean, traded for molasses ( also known as the Middle Passage); molasses carried to New England to be converted to rum. Slave ships were typically small, fast vessels of 400 to 500 tons.

 

[Brawdhead]

2. Beer over cider was a result of the polluted water in the urban areas. Beer was boiled during brewing and therefore safer to consume than water and easier to produce in large quantities for the family or public.

Very interesting. That's one theory I've not encountered before. I would be not at all surprised if that did indeed play a role.

It could be drank "green" with no need for aging like good cider required.

I disagree with that statement. I believe that cider has a much stronger tradition of being consumed green than does beer. Traditional ciders were/are generally ready for consumption within days of pressing.

In it's heyday in the US, cider was often served right from the vessel it fermented in. It was not a bottled beverage. I think that practice of drinking it live began disappearing from the world of ale long before it did from cider.

Sure, in France they age ciders, but that has not been typical for the farmhouse varieties.

Nowadays, of course, neither commercial beers nor commercial ciders are consumed green. Force carbonation, filtration, and preservatives are used to speed up the process, but they're still mature products.

Cider was a seasonal drink depending on the presence of a good crop of apples.

I don't get the impression that that has traditionally been the case. Many cider apple varieties are selected for their storage characteristics. It's my understanding that the beverage could be made throughout the year.

There just wern't enough apples for cider to be anyone's national drink.

This I also disagree with. The US had a lot of farmland devoted to orchards. And nearly all of that was devoted to cider production. (Apples for eating or cooking was a small side product of the cider industry, not vice versa.) Most eastern and midwestern orchards vanished when the cider market changed.

Although we have quite a number of commercial apple orchards operating in the US, you would be hard-pressed to find any growing traditional cider variety apples.

The best of hard ciders required a good frost on the barrels which restricted the drink to a seasonal beverage.

It's true that traditional cider doesn't have as good a shelf life as beer. The lack of boiling and the low alcohol content leave it much more prone to spoilage.

I think another thing that played a role is storage and distribution of the ingredients. Barley, once malted and dried, can survive a lot of abuse. You can roughly toss a 100# sack into a freightcar and, as long as it stays dry and doesn't get much over about 100 degrees F, the necessary active enzymes are still okay.

Apples, on the other hand, begin to spoil almost immediately with every little bruise and they can't tolerate conditions above room temperature (and even that not very well). Not much of a problem when it's just a short wagon ride from your orchard to the pressing mill. But if there's a bumpy trainride in there, forget it.

From the mid-19th century on, the trend in the industry was toward larger regional breweries over small local ones. That meant transporting the ingredients. The fragility of apples would have largely prevented cidermakers from enjoying the economies of scale achieved by their barley-based counterparts.

It also required a surplus of "good" apples, where beer/ale could have various flavors added to cover a rough batch.

I'm not so sure that was true a century or more ago. Quality cider could be made with some pretty ugly, wormy apples. And, as I mentioned above, cider was not a surplus product of orchards, it was the *primary* product.

Nowadays, we have breweries like Miller and AB who can take whatever cheap, low-quality barley they can find on the market and doctor it up to ensure that each batch is as tasteless as the last. This technique has been applied to produced fake, mass-market hard ciders like Hornsby's, Woodchuck, Mike's Hard, and Hardcore.

Dang, I'm gettin' thirsty!
Dan

 

[Brawdhead]

Apple juice unfermented has a high methenol content

Do you have an actual source for that statement?

so when you ferment it you get even more methenol

Or that one?

Dan