Dry(ed) Lube

[Stumpkiller]

Based on a previous discussion in which Doc Will asked me what I considered a dry lube, I did some 'sperimentin. I took strips of 0.021" thick cotton tic and soaked them well in my Moose Milk variation (see below). I then hung them on a clothes line and let it dry out. It does not rub off on my hands (or leave a visible sheen on leather), but it has a decidedly "treated" feel when handled. I did some shooting, and, in my .50 cal New Englander, which has never before shot well with round balls, I was gettin 2 and 3 inch three shot groups OFFHAND at 50 yards. I would use a saliva damp patch between rounds to wipe the bore. The best group (I'll scan it tomorrow) measures slightly under 1" c-t-c. That's with 84 gr FFg. By happy coincidence, I had a 3 x 5" Post-it behind the target center (I can't enter the contest - but I can play along at home). Granted, it was the best of five, but I haven't fired a sub 1" group EVER with a round ball in that rifle, and that is better than I usually do of crossed sticks with my set-trigger .54 Renegade (which DOES shoot round balls lubed with my wax-based Moose Snot very well).

I have been trying to eliminate between shot wiping, but with these pre-prepared patch strips, or pre-loaded in blocks, it is not too many extra steps to lay a patch on my tongue while flipping the rod out and run a quick wipe. I adopted an old trick of pre-cutting the patches (I'm using the same tic as the ball patch) and threading them on a string; so I can have them orderly in the bag, but can slide one off at a time to lay on my tongue following the shot. I screw the jag on through a hole in the patch so it can't pull off in the bore. The yarn holes in the corner mean I don't have to take the extra step to poke the hole.

Not having to carry ANY tins or bottles is worth the extra wiping (simplify, simplify). I will now carry a 1 oz bottle of Lehigh Lube instead of the moose milk. I swab with Lehigh before the first shot - and my first two shots today from a cold barrel were touching. When hunting, any system that gets the all-important first shot in the group is a good thing.

Two rifles figured out. New one on the horizon come January. Ain't this fun?



Stumpy's Moose Milk
A general purpose blackpowder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz.

Note that castor oil is not water soluable, but it is alcohol soluable, and this castor cocktail is in turn water soluable. The above makes a non-petroleum based water soluable "dry" lube when the soaked cotton strips are allowed to air-dry for a couple days.

 

[RussB]

Stumpy...Don't know what to say about "dry" lube. I tried Dutch Schoultz method awhile back, and if there was a lot of difference, I was not astute enough to see it.
Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying here...I'm saying "I" didn't get a whole lot for my money. Still yet, others swear by his method....and perhaps that is as it should be.

My personal thoughts about "dry" lube is you can actually "build" a patch to the thickness that performs best in your rifle...and that is a very strong feature.
Multiple applications of "dry" lube will give you a thicker patch, using the same material...if applied properly.

You mentioned hanging your strips on the clothes line. I think you would get better lube properties by laying it flat and letting it dry...to avoid dripping, which would make one end of the strip a bit more lubed...and a bit "thicker" than the other.

When using dry lube, I do believe you can get a patch too slick IMHO. There is a certain thickness, and a certain lubricity of a given patch, that is going to make your rifle perform[url] better....plain[/url] and simple.

You mentioned getting "better groups', much better than normal. Now, if I were you, I would stop right here, and do my best to duplicate what you have just done. If you can duplicate this over, and over, it is my opinion you can improve on it...at least some. If not, be thankful for you have done so far.

I have tried your Moose MIlk, and I have tried Dutch Schoultz's Moose Milk. I got better results using his formula with the dry patch method. My biggest problem now, as it has been for several years, is finding that patch material is just right, in both thickness and weave. I have the remnants of two yards I bought last year, and I have been looking hard for a replacement, w/o much luck.

My experience tells me that an amount as small as .001 can be the deciding factor in where a gun shoots right or not.
And, as I said before....using dry lube you can "build" on a patch that is too small, BUT..it might end up too slick if you aren't careful.
Try "double" and "tripple lubing" that same material and see what your results are. It may be rewarding, but it could also be the reverse.

Just my thoughts on dry lube, as I said.."I don't realy know what to say"...it's NOT a cure all for consistently good shooting.
Y.M.H.S. (as rollinb would say)
Russ

 

[roundball]

:master:
I'll repeat my previous compliments to those who experiment with all these variables like this...makes for good interesting reading and is probably how a lot of new ideas and inventions come about.

For me...I have my hands full just trying to manage myself as the major variable in just cleaning, loading, and shooting my rifles...so I really appreciate being able to get bags of precut / prelubed pillow ticking patches and at least not have that variable to contend with
:master:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here's my best 3-shot group of the test. Heck, that's my best three shot group this year! Three shots offhand at 50 yards. :: Just had to scan it for posterity.

The recovered patches show they are doing their job.

 

[Rebel]

Pretty good group you got there Stumpkiller. Now we know why the Moderators aren't allowed to shoot in the contest. ::

 

[jrdavis]

I make that to be about 4-1 oil to water...have you tried more water or oil to see if your point of impact moves like Dutch suggest?

 

[RussB]

Stumpy, why are playing around with anything other that what you used on those patches????
Three shots "off-hand", with that kind of group, has gotta be grounds for a Guiness Book of Inquiry...darn good thing you are not allowed in forum competition....you'd end up with ALL the bumper stickers! :master:

Personally, I jump up & down, and raise Holly H***, when I shoot that kind of group from the bench at 50. Your problem is certainly not with your patch. :imo:
Your problem, is in the thinking that you do have a problem.

Here now, lay down on my couch and tell me about this lousy child hood you have suffered. At $600 bucks an hour, I can fix that patch. :youcrazy: Trust me!

 

[roundball]

Be glad when I can shoot off hand like that...excellent Stumpy!

 

[RussB]

I make that to be about 4-1 oil to water...have you tried more water or oil to see if your point of impact moves like Dutch suggest?

If I remember correctly, Dutch suggested a starting point of 7:1....It's been a while, I'm no longer sure.
Anyway, I started where he suggested, and went up and down the scale. I found that at the higher ratios ie, 3:1 or even 2:1, I could actually "add" a bit of thickness to the patch in increments of +/- .0005 with repeated wetting / dryings. I was elated over this! But I also found out what happens when you get a patch "too slick" with dry lube...it throws flyers....very radical flyers! And they are frequent flyers too. (but not the kind that gets ya free trips)

I have finally settled on 5:1 with two wettings / dryings.
Still yet! I find no magic in this. I can do the same with other homebrewed lubes...if I have the right platform to start with, meaning the right patch material.

Lube facinates me. I shoot a lot of cast bullets using both black powder and smokeless. When you shoot cast, you have gotta lube those puppies. I have been making different lubes for more than 30 years, and I have used receipes that were said to be proven by folks like Harry Pope, Ben Harris, and countless others. If there was ever any "magic" in any of these, I was never smart enough to see it. Most of them do their job of PROTECTING THE BORE, and PROVIDING A GAS CHECK of sorts, and that is all they are supposed to do.
Lube is as lube does. A bigger bullet, or a tighter patch is most often THE THING that will make you or break you. It is my humble opinion that the more simple you keep your lube (as long as it is workin) the better off you are.

There are three grades of lube...good, better, and best. And it all depends on who is talking at the time, as to where your favorite lube is going to fall.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I never sent in the bucks, so I don't know what Dutch's system involves.

That group is, by the way, NOTHING like my usual offhand group. As me Pappy used to say: "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally." If I can do 4" at 50 yards offhand with my M/Lers I am usually a happy dude.

At this point I ain't changin nuttin with this rifle. :: 84 gr FFg is certainly not a barn burner, but it will do for whitetail at the ranges I shoot. This is a T/C New Englander that I gave up with roundballs 10 years ago and have used for conicals (and with the smoothbore barrel). I have spent hours and hours since last winter trying various lube and loading variations because I like to shoot PRB. In February I couldn't get three shots in 8" at 50 yards offhand with this rifle using the same patch & Natural Lube that my Renegade thrived on. Now it's hovering around 3", with two shots touching even it those groups.

Pardon me for being self-indulgent, but this has been a long time coming and a lot of work. Those of you that waded through the Lube Wars thread know I've burned way too much time making this little rifle shoot.

Now I gotta go find some critters to make all this work worthwhile. :thumbsup:

 

[buckknife]

Stumpys swaben :hmm:15 bucks for the Dutch papers is worth there weight in gold an then sum.I know the dutch system works(thank you Tacks)but i been getten lazy lattly an like shooten the moose milk.Shot all kinds of home made brews with varying results,most acceptable,but i wanted better.
Dug threw my Dutch papers and found his moose milk brew that Dutch used to shoot,good stuff,and the paragraph below the recipe gave me what i needed to get the idea to shrink the moose milk groups down to darn right good groups.
Tacks was right that the same school of thought about the Dutch papers will never leave ya once ya soak it all up,and i have read em from cover to cover 50 times at least an theres probably still sumin that ive missed,slow learner i guess
And by the way that was sum good shooten stumpy fer off hand.