Dutch Schultz' Accuracy Method

[Dobegrant]

I just bought it from eBay , the whole transaction was quick and easy, have been using pre cut patches for a while but I like the idea of the process, will keep me occupied during these crazy times.

 

[eggwelder]

I use dutch`s system on all my PRB rifles. Brought my CVA .32 squirrel to around 1 inch at 50 yds. My old .45 Ardessa is about 2 inch, but i think i need to change one of the variables it get that smaller.
you can apply the same principles to any and all reloading- patches and lube may not be involved

 

[Dr5x]

I use dutch`s system on all my PRB rifles. Brought my CVA .32 squirrel to around 1 inch at 50 yds. My old .45 Ardessa is about 2 inch, but i think i need to change one of the variables it get that smaller.
you can apply the same principles to any and all reloading- patches and lube may not be involved

On a windless day I frequently experienced one-hole groups at 50 yards bench and quarter size groups at 100 yards.
What surprised me was no fliers during my final years at the range before my vision began to fade perceptibly.

Dutch

 

[UndeadPoet]

On a windless day I frequently experienced one-hole groups at 50 yards bench and quarter size groups at 100 yards.
What surprised me was no fliers during my final years at the range before my vision began to fade perceptibly.

Dutch

Great to hear from you, Dutch! I bought your system a few months ago, have read it all cover-to-cover, and purchased my Ballistol, Pine-Sol, etc., and can’t wait to try it out (unfortunately, I haven’t been able to go up to the family place in Kentucky and shoot, yet). I’ll let you know how things turn out.

 

[Buckskinn]

I got a few little pointers out of it, but for the most part it is just consistency and changing one variable at a time. I do a lot of handloading for HP rifles and this is the very basic concept of handloading. If you are a beginner to the muzzleloader world and do not handload you would probably get more out of it. The dry lube concept is interesting and I use it, but nothing secret about it.

Consistency is not all it is. If you are consistently doing it wrong you will consistently have bad groups.

I think I was expecting people wouldn't just cherry pick the parts that were easy for them and skip the important parts and make a judgement.


I will continue selling in hopes of that one out of ten buyers will seriously examine the system.
Dutch

I read and understood the entire system and I didn't knock it. For those with limited loading experience I'm sure it is very valuable. For those with more experience, less valuable. People have differing experience, you can't really expect to wow everyone with your system.

Obviously you need to work up to an accurate load/method, changing one variable at a time is key, after that it's consistency. I guess I assumed people would understand that basic concept that I was portraying.

 

[Sun City]

Ricks' Method....seems to be working great!

.54 Hawken Flintlock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Three shots 75 yards with a .54 Hawken flint rifle.

 

[Dr5x]

I read and understood the entire system and I didn't knock it. For those with limited loading experience I'm sure it is very valuable. For those with more experience, less valuable. People have differing experience, you can't really expect to wow everyone with your system.

Obviously you need to work up to an accurate load/method, changing one variable at a time is key, after that it's consistency. I guess I assumed people would understand that basic concept that I was portraying.

BUCKSKIN.
I think you have missed the point a little bit.
I don't think that everyone should use my systems, Just the people who have had no luck following other systems with no good luck.
The thing I discovered by accident is covered in the section
dealing with the selection of shooting patch material and how to measure the compressed thickness of the shooting patch material they are experimenting with. That discovery is the only reason I have written anything. All the rest can be valuable put the patch selection section is the part most subscribers skip because It involves math is my guess.
Thank you for your post which is largely accurate with the exception of you missing them main discovery.
Dutch Schoultz

 

[Kansas Jake]

Dutch, it is good to hear from you. Keep us on our toes.

 

[Dr5x]

Ricks' Method....seems to be working great!

.54 Hawken Flintlock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Three shots 75 yards with a .54 Hawken flint rifle.

THAT.S A fine target which you say was the result of
Rick.s Method.
Can you give us an idea of what Rick.s method might be.
Any method that gets results like that is worth hearing about
Dutch Schoultz

 

[Sparkitoff]

I purchased the reading material over a year ago and spent over 100-hours and twice as many dollars firing groups and changing one thing at a time, little by little. Ultimately it did work as I eliminated fliers from my groups. When I found the load for each rifle I stuck to it. I did find one thing that I did not see spelled out in the material. My "dry-lube" that worked best ended up being 7:1. I make strips and store them in the plastic amber pill bottles. When I use them I cut at the muzzle. Well, after as soon as a few weeks and as much as a few months I would have a slight movement or opening up of the group. Inspecting patches showed some uneven wear that did not show from patches earlier (even off the same strip). So either they are drying out more in the bottle or the oil is slowing shifting on the material. I figured out if I keep strips more than about month I need to stick them back in the formula, let them dry again and then roll them up and put them in the bottle. Maybe my bottles are not quite "sealed" or maybe its that the strips are rolled and stored with the bottle upright. Whatever - this is something I learned and have to pay attention to and maintain. When the patch has been freshly lubed- within about a month of use- everything is fine.

 

[mooman76]

Plastic is not completely air tight. A small glass jar might serve you better.

 

[Dr5x]

I purchased the reading material over a year ago and spent over 100-hours and twice as many dollars firing groups and changing one thing at a time, little by little. Ultimately it did work as I eliminated fliers from my groups. When I found the load for each rifle I stuck to it. I did find one thing that I did not see spelled out in the material. My "dry-lube" that worked best ended up being 7:1. I make strips and store them in the plastic amber pill bottles. When I use them I cut at the muzzle. Well, after as soon as a few weeks and as much as a few months I would have a slight movement or opening up of the group. Inspecting patches showed some uneven wear that did not show from patches earlier (even off the same strip). So either they are drying out more in the bottle or the oil is slowing shifting on the material. I figured out if I keep strips more than about month I need to stick them back in the formula, let them dry again and then roll them up and put them in the bottle. Maybe my bottles are not quite "sealed" or maybe its that the strips are rolled and stored with the bottle upright. Whatever - this is something I learned and have to pay attention to and maintain. When the patch has been freshly lubed- within about a month of use- everything is fine.

I AM DELIGHTED ABOUT YOUR GOOD NEWS OF INCREASED ACCURACY IN WHAT I BELIEVE WERE A NUMBER OF RIFLES. I AM USED TO SUCH REPORTS.
I AM HOWEVERGREATLY PUZZLED BYYOUR STORY OF BREAKING DOWN OF PATCHES USING MY SO CALLED DRY PATCH SYSTEM.
THE CLOTH MATERIALI WAS USING WAS AN ALL COTTON DENIM THAT LASTED ABOUT A YEAR ND A HALF. IT WS LUBEDWITH WATER SOLUBLE OIL IN A RATION THE SAME AS YOURS OF 7 TO ONE.
WHAT IS THE WATER SOLUBLE LUBRICANT YOU ARE USING? I THINK THAT JUST MIGHT BE THE GUILTY PARTY IN THIS MYSTERY..







I USED WATER SOLUBLE OIL OBTAINED FROM A SPECIALTY OIL COMPNY. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT BALLISTOL HAS BEEN A WORTHWHILE SUBSTITUTE OR AT LEAST I HAVE NOTHING BUT FAVORABLE REPORTS ACCOMPANIED WITH NO COMPLAINTS..
SORRY ABOUT ALL THE POSSIBLE TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS AND ALL CAP REPLEY. I HAVE BECOME NEAR BLIND AND HAVE TROUBLE SEEING THE KEYBOARD.
LET ME KNOW WHAT FABRIC YOU ARE USING AND WHAT WATER SOLUBLE OIL.
I AM PLEASED TO NOTE YOUR REPORT OF NO FLYERS. BUT WHEN YOU FOLLOW THE SYSTEMS SUGGESTIONS CLOSELY THOS FLYER JUST SEEM TO FADE AWAY.

DUTCH

 

[Sparkitoff]

I am using blue striped cotton pillow tick with ballistol and water.

 

[Dr5x]

I am using blue striped cotton pillow tick with ballistol and water.

THEN I AM TRULY PUZZLED.
I once came across pillow ticking in which the blue stripes had been embroidered into the basic white cotton twill creating a cloth that was thicker where the blue stripes had been added, Which. if I remember correctly had been giving some odd problems but that was maybe 30 years ago and very unlikely to exist in your situation today.

I don't know what to think here. I am assuming you are using one unit of Ballistic to seven units of water which is what mix I was using except I was using water soluble oil instead of Ballistic.
Is the water you are using considered to be exceptionally "Hard"?.I doubt that would make the patch material disintegrate.
My only suggestion is that you find some cotton denim that compresses the same as your ticking and prepare some denim strips exactly the same way as you prepared the ticking.
Shooting with these different cloth patches will tell you that the curse has been cured or continues. Whenever I would run out of "Dry" patches I would create strips till my yard of denim ran out. When cameras used film it came in black plastic short bottles with a grey plastic cap that was quite tight. I think the orange prescription bottle must be equally tight as any moisture that either escaped or entered would greatly effect the nature of the expensive ingredients.
If any forum members are reading this mysterious problem I for one would appreciate your wise thoughts. We have heard from Kansas Jake so far but would like and helpful thoughts.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Hawk78]

THEN I AM TRULY PUZZLED.
I once came across pillow ticking in which the blue stripes had been embroidered into the basic white cotton twill creating a cloth that was thicker where the blue stripes had been added, Which. if I remember correctly had been giving some odd problems but that was maybe 30 years ago and very unlikely to exist in your situation today.

I don't know what to think here. I am assuming you are using one unit of Ballistic to seven units of water which is what mix I was using except I was using water soluble oil instead of Ballistic.
Is the water you are using considered to be exceptionally "Hard"?.I doubt that would make the patch material disintegrate.
My only suggestion is that you find some cotton denim that compresses the same as your ticking and prepare some denim strips exactly the same way as you prepared the ticking.
Shooting with these different cloth patches will tell you that the curse has been cured or continues. Whenever I would run out of "Dry" patches I would create strips till my yard of denim ran out. When cameras used film it came in black plastic short bottles with a grey plastic cap that was quite tight. I think the orange prescription bottle must be equally tight as any moisture that either escaped or entered would greatly effect the nature of the expensive ingredients.
If any forum members are reading this mysterious problem I for one would appreciate your wise thoughts. We have heard from Kansas Jake so far but would like and helpful thoughts.

Dutch Schoultz

I keep my precut patches in old film containers with OxYoke competion lube. In my Lyman GPR, I shoot this load: 60 grs 3f Goex, .015 wet patch, .498 ball that I cast. I sqeeze the excess lube from the patch firmly (consistently) each and every time before I load. I never wipe between shots. The fouling is simply pushed down onto the next charge, consistently. I shoot 1 inch groups at 50 yards benched without flyers, all day long any day.
I'm not knocking your method Mr. Schoultz, just letting you know my method. I've read a lot from all these forums over the past couple of years and remember reading that the ball needed to be no less than .005's of the barrel and decided to go with the .498 ball. I joined a club, and they told me to stop wiping between shots, and turned me onto the water & Dawn dish soap method that I tweaked with the OxYoke lube. I believe if I was to weigh out my powder charges into these plastic vials I bought awhile back, I could shrink my group to possibly a ragged hole. But, I like loading from my horn and fixed brass powder measure.
I also like Track of The Wolf's Mink oil for hunting and using my home made loading blocks, but my group opens to 1.5 inches with this method.
I may buy your book if I can find it in an actual book on Ebay.

 

[Dr5x]

I keep my precut patches in old film containers with OxYoke competion lube. In my Lyman GPR, I shoot this load: 60 grs 3f Goex, .015 wet patch, .498 ball that I cast. I sqeeze the excess lube from the patch firmly (consistently) each and every time before I load. I never wipe between shots. The fouling is simply pushed down onto the next charge, consistently. I shoot 1 inch groups at 50 yards benched without flyers, all day long any day.
I'm not knocking your method Mr. Schoultz, just letting you know my method. I've read a lot from all these forums over the past couple of years and remember reading that the ball needed to be no less than .005's of the barrel and decided to go with the .498 ball. I joined a club, and they told me to stop wiping between shots, and turned me onto the water & Dawn dish soap method that I tweaked with the OxYoke lube. I believe if I was to weigh out my powder charges into these plastic vials I bought awhile back, I could shrink my group to possibly a ragged hole. But, I like loading from my horn and fixed brass powder measure.
I also like Track of The Wolf's Mink oil for hunting and using my home made loading blocks, but my group opens to 1.5 inches with this method.
I may buy your book if I can find it in an actual book on Ebay.

In spite of what you say your method resemble my method very little which is OK with me Mine is apparently not the only way to achieve accuracy. Your patch disintegration my result from you NOT cutting them at the muzzle. I suggest you present your problem to the same folks who suggest you not wipe between shots as you seem to get what appears tho be rather effective help from them,

Dutch

 

[Ben Meyer]

I use the Dutch method. Have worked most all parts of it except weighing out individual balls(ill eventually get to that). I DO only use ball from one guy and they've shot pretty consistently. After multiple range trips, last time out shooting blackpowder(May??) I found my "load." I then cut a bunch of that patching material(8-9 rolls) and treated it with 7:1 ballistol and water as i always do, let them dry flat, then rolled them all up and put them all in a zip lock plastic sandwich bag in my shooting box.

How long can I expect these to stay properly lubricated? Is there a shelf life? I could relube/redry them, but should I "need" to?

 

[Hawk78]

In spite of what you say your method resemble my method very little which is OK with me Mine is apparently not the only way to achieve accuracy. Your patch disintegration my result from you NOT cutting them at the muzzle. I suggest you present your problem to the same folks who suggest you not wipe between shots as you seem to get what appears tho be rather effective help from them,

Dutch

What patch "disintegration"? I didn't present any problems. I was just sharing my method and suggesting I may buy your book if I can get in print.

 

[Dr5x]

What patch "disintegration"? I didn't present any problems. I was just sharing my method and suggesting I may buy your book if I can get in print.

ALL OR MOST SUBSCRIBERS SIMPLY PRINT OUT THE EBOOK.
THE "BOOK" WAS ORIGINALLY A COLLECTION OF PRINTED PAPERS PRODUCED OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.
I APOLOGIZE ABOYT THE DISINKTEGRATIO DRY LUBED PATCHES. . I GET SO MANY POSTS I MUST HAVE GOTTEN CONFUSED.
DUTCH

 

[Dr5x]

I use the Dutch method. Have worked most all parts of it except weighing out individual balls(ill eventually get to that). I DO only use ball from one guy and they've shot pretty consistently. After multiple range trips, last time out shooting blackpowder(May??) I found my "load." I then cut a bunch of that patching material(8-9 rolls) and treated it with 7:1 ballistol and water as i always do, let them dry flat, then rolled them all up and put them all in a zip lock plastic sandwich bag in my shooting box.

How long can I expect these to stay properly lubricated? Is there a shelf life? I could relube/redry them, but should I "need" to?

MINE LASTED ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OF QUITE A BIT OF SHOOTING IN EXPERIMENTALRESEARCH.
LOOK FOR THE CHEAPES SCALE THE MEASURES IN GRAINS THEN FOLLOW THE SUGGESTIONS IN THE BOOK
FOR SOME REASON I DON'T UBDERSTAND YOU ARE THE ONLY SUBSCIBER WHO PHONE NUMBER IS ON MY SPEED DIAL.???
DUTCH