Michael would be proud of you TobJohn!
Bit too busy to visit here much at present!
Bit too busy to visit here much at present!
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Early 1500s Snapping Matchlock carbine
- Thread starter Flint62Smoothie
- Start date
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With the resurrection painting, I thought I had finally found a painting to use as a source, that he had not already posted. While trying to find his handgonne thread, I of course saw that he had already posted it.
For early snapping locks, I scrolled through the rest of the Maximillian armory book and there is an example of an arquebus with a forward snapping lock:
What is particularly interesting is that it looks to have a lock plate. The other image has the serpentines directly attached to the barrel, with no visible lockplate. The lack of lock plate isn’t too unique, because the hermitage gun lacks one, but I’ve never seen the serpentine attached to the barrel in that style. I had assumed it was the artist's mistake, but given the accurate depiction of a forward facing lock, it could actually be an intentional depiction of an unusual lock arrangement.
A contemporary wall piece showing the same lock type:
vs
If anyone wants to check for themselves:
bavarikon
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I found Michael's own thoughts on the matter:
Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - A Very Rare Nuremberg Arquebus 'Bronze'/Brass Barrel, ca. 1500-10
A Very Rare Nuremberg Arquebus 'Bronze'/Brass Barrel, ca. 1500-10 - Ethnographic Arms & Armour
He dismisses it as the artist's mistake. Looking at high res image, the gun is actually very detailed, so now I am getting suspicious that there is something to it being real. However, the obvious problem is how would it actually work.
Notice:
Touchhole in the pan
Pan cover, and even possible the bottom of its pin or screw
Trigger button
Sear catch blocking the serpentine tail
Lug/pin for the serpentine to rotate on.
I still see no way for it to actually work, but interesting that the artist got all of these small details, just to massively mess up the placement of the serpentine.
As detailed as I can get for the other arquebus, for anyone wanting to make their own comparisons:
Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - A Very Rare Nuremberg Arquebus 'Bronze'/Brass Barrel, ca. 1500-10
A Very Rare Nuremberg Arquebus 'Bronze'/Brass Barrel, ca. 1500-10 - Ethnographic Arms & Armour
He dismisses it as the artist's mistake. Looking at high res image, the gun is actually very detailed, so now I am getting suspicious that there is something to it being real. However, the obvious problem is how would it actually work.
Notice:
Touchhole in the pan
Pan cover, and even possible the bottom of its pin or screw
Trigger button
Sear catch blocking the serpentine tail
Lug/pin for the serpentine to rotate on.
I still see no way for it to actually work, but interesting that the artist got all of these small details, just to massively mess up the placement of the serpentine.
As detailed as I can get for the other arquebus, for anyone wanting to make their own comparisons:
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Tob,
I like the way you dig into things! I am very proud of you as well!
To me, the top lock can't work.
No spring is to be seen for the serpent. It can't be inside, as we can't put a spring inside the barrel, so feel that though the artist knew a lot about a tinder lock, he may not have known everything.
Even attaching the serpent to the barrel would be hard work compared to the stock, but we do know that some later hand Gonnes had this arrangement, attached to the iron anyway, even if behind the barrel on the tiller.
The second depiction is very doable, and feel this is more accurate.
Of course, I am happy to be found wrong regarding the first picture!
all the best,
Richard.
I like the way you dig into things! I am very proud of you as well!
To me, the top lock can't work.
No spring is to be seen for the serpent. It can't be inside, as we can't put a spring inside the barrel, so feel that though the artist knew a lot about a tinder lock, he may not have known everything.
Even attaching the serpent to the barrel would be hard work compared to the stock, but we do know that some later hand Gonnes had this arrangement, attached to the iron anyway, even if behind the barrel on the tiller.
The second depiction is very doable, and feel this is more accurate.
Of course, I am happy to be found wrong regarding the first picture!
all the best,
Richard.
Okay,
Thinking of a way to make the first picture work!
a spring could be attached to the stock, but it would need to slide in the direction of the muzzle..
I think this is a blind alley, as it would be a mechanism like none known for such a lock..
Thinking of a way to make the first picture work!
a spring could be attached to the stock, but it would need to slide in the direction of the muzzle..
I think this is a blind alley, as it would be a mechanism like none known for such a lock..
Yes, I think you are correct. The only possible method I can think of is that the catch goes between the serpentine and the barrel. Pushing the trigger button removes it from the serpentine’s path and it falls down from gravity. This seems like a terrible system, but would work with how far above the pan the serpentine is. It’s a visual inventory, so maybe the artist got the first couple on the wall wrong, and didn’t realize until he got to the gun he used as the model for the soldier holding it (the others aren’t as detailed). At that point, he already committed and just went with it lol.
I just noticed the surviving wall gun has a pan fairly far above the stock
Sir;
Wow!
That is a lot of information. I will have a lot of reading for tonight. Fantastic photograph of hand made screws, which are beyond my skills.
Stay alert, stay safe.
Thank you,
Hector
Sir;
Thank you for posting those wonderful photographs of the matchlock. After your shoot, is there any chance of getting a photograph of the backside of the lock and trigger?
Thank you,
Hector
Sir Rudyard, has a nice ring to it...
Hector
For anyone interested in this arquebus, I took some photos of the RA examples, showing different angles:
The links to the museums have side profile images and dimension, so I figured these images could help anyone interested in replicating one.
The museum added new photos of this gun to their collections database:
https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-15576
