Early days of ball casting

[Gene L]

And I mean early. What material did they used for molds and how did they bore the molds? I know about brass and have even heard about people using stone (soapstone, IIRC.)

I would imagine that making a cherry for reaming out the mold must have required a heck of a lot of gunsmithing knowledge.

If anyone has information on pre-18th century mold making, or even further back, please share it.

 

[tenngun]

Casting ball predates guns. The Romans cast ball and a wedge shaped lead projectiles for slingers to use, and would load bags of ball about 1 inch to shoot from catapults. Remains of a cross bow using tension drums and shot from the shoulder shooting a 3/4 inch ball has been found. They seem to have been used at sea.
Ball was cast in soap stone and bronze molds. I have no idea how they made cherrys

 

[Rick Boylan]

Didn't they used to make ball at shot towers?

I read that they would drop the molten lead from the inside of a tower and it would fall into a water basin down below. As the lead falls it becomes roundish. They would gather up the lead from the water and sort it by what caliber or gauge it was. At least that's the way I remember reading about it a few years back. Sounds logical.

 

[Gene L]

Could be, but I think they made shot at shot towers. The smaller diameter of the shot formed a lot easier than the round balls of rifles or muskets. Even then, the shot weren't fully round.

I also think shot towers were fairly late in firearms technology. There are still examples of them now standing.

I think early shot was chopped from straight pieces of lead and were more or less rectangular or square in section. At least I think I read that somewhere.

It's fairly easy (hah!) to make a marble of stone, or agate or even clay and they might have been used as molds for brass.

I don't know. I'm just curious about a lot of things and this popped up after some idle meandering.

 

[smoothshooter]

The drop towers were only used for the various birdshot and possibly larger sized up to about 1/4" diameter, as far as I know.

 

[Archer 756]

:thumbsup: Shoot towers are still used today :hatsoff:

 

[54ball]

A temporary serviceable mould can be made out wood. I have no documentation of such used in times past(honestly I have not looked for it). It will eventually burn out but it is very possible to get a few respectable projectiles out of a wood mould.
I have read where larger ball were shaved scraped down to fit a smaller bore.
As has been mentioned soapstone moulds have been found and make very good ball moulds.
A cherry bit was formed out of wrought iron. After forming it was filed to final shape and the grooves for cutting were filed or cut into ball. Then it was cased hardened. If formed out of steel it was annealed and worked in the soft then heat treated (hardened).
This one one of the operations a gunsmith or barrel maker would do....provide a matching cheery and or mould for the new rifle barrel.

 

[TNGhost]

Wood, any type of carvable stone, along with plaster and clay were used make servicable molds. All were in use before the advent of firearms. Plaster and clay being the easiest as no cutting of the cavity is required, only a "positive" to shape or pour them around.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Casting techniques go back 6000 years....However it is likely that the fist lead ball was simply hammered into shape.
The oldest example of precision cast lead balls that I could find, goes back to the time of Charlemagne. Rabanus Maurus Magnentius, a Frankish Benedictine monk described Slingers using precision cast lead balls for their slings. They were said to be effective to a range of 200 yards.
This was between the 8th and 9th centuries A.D.

 

[eggwelder]

making the cherry is described in detail in "The Art of Blacksmithing" by George Bealer. 200 or 300 years ago this would probably have been an apprentice`s task.
after that the mold is easy, just have to tweak to get as perfect as you want. my .32 cal mold is one i made from soapstone.(i used a dremel ball cutter conveniently sized to my .32. i have no idea the size of the bit)

 

[Wes/Tex]

You'd have to go back pretty far not to find iron ball molds in use. Exdamples have been found dating prior to 1550. Soap stone, etc. has been used but iron molds for hunters and militry gang molds date way back. This is an early one, though actual age is unknown.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip.../Gussform_verso.JPG/1024px-Gussform_verso.JPG

 

[Gene L]

Is that a half-mold?

And in your soapstone mold, how did you get the halves to mate up?

 

[eggwelder]

i trued up the halves on a flat surface, and scored the sprue lines with a hacksaw blade. i clamped the halves and drilled both sprue holes and the guide pin holes.

I then set the ball cutter in the groove and lowered the cutter slowly and started cutting. at half way, i set the guide pins, i used roll pins, and pressed the two halves together, stopping regularly to clear the dust and clean the cutter. got to keep the ball cutter shaft level and firmly in the sprue channel of the half you started with, and you should end up with two perfectly(almost) mold halves.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Pictured is half a mold but sadly not mine. All molds require some sort of guides to be sure the two halves are lined up properly. Most have pin and hole or some version of it, but saw one old soapstone mold in a museum that had some rather complex cutouts and appeared to have been held together with wire or some now missing clamp.

 

[smoothshooter]

Not doubting soapstone was used here, but am curious where would Americans, and more specifically frontiersmen, get soapstone?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not doubting soapstone was used here, but am curious where would Americans, and more specifically frontiersmen, get soapstone?

It is a quarried product found in many places around the world. Georgia has huge deposits. And, much is found in the Arkansas/Missouri Ozarks. My parents had a crafts shop in north-central Arkansas where I live. A local craftsman often brought in soapstone items he had made to sell to them. I don't know where he sourced it but, I'm sure, it was local. When I had my farm here there were some area with a very soft stone that could easily be worked with normal tools. Don't know exactly what it was, sorta in between sandstone and granite.

 

[Gene L]

I think Vermont has some deposits as well. You can buy stoves with the tops made of soapstone. Kinda expensive, but sure looks good.

 

[TNGhost]

Not doubting soapstone was used here, but am curious where would Americans, and more specifically frontiersmen, get soapstone?

Pipestone, or catlinite, is another carvable stone that is available over a wide range, in different varieties. Southwest Minnesota is perhaps the most famous area for this.

Called pipestone because native americans carved pipes from it and I am sure a frontiersman could have obtained information from indians as to its use and where to find it. It could easily be used to make molds.

I have to believe though, that plain old clay would have been one of the more popular mold materials in early days.

 

[eggwelder]

I've made a mold or two when i was younger out of clay and cast lead in them. just make sure they are completely dry before casting. the water in them can cause the clay to explode.

 

[George]

I don't know that any of these are pre-1700, but there are some early and primitive ones.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/298944/post/1547225/hl//fromsearch/1/

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