Early Lancaster Plans

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bioprof

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Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for an early Dickert (1770's) longrifle? Would the Bivins rifle plans from TOW work for a Dickert? I believe their plans are based on a Issac Haines rifle.
 
I just checked the Log Cabin Shop's catalog and they show a Lancaster but its a 1790. They also show an early rifle listed at a Northampton Co. rifle but I don't think it what you want. that original rifle is shown in detail in the book Rifle's of Colonial America Vol. 1. page 222 Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Jeff
 
Well, the basic assembly is same on most longrifles, but the Haines & the Dickert rifles are allot different. The Dickert is longer & sleeker & the buttstock is shaped more rounded & not a thick at the comb & heel, the toe more pointed & etc. They are considerably different. And the carvings are all together different. 3 RR pipes rather than 2 on the Haines. Why not just buy the correct plans & use that to guide you ?

You can get the Jacob Dickert plans from MBS and it is plan # 19200. Was $9.95 & should be in stock. If they are out of it email me & I will loan you mine.
:thumbsup: :hmm:
 
I never use plans.
The architecture of every gun is determined to a large extent by the parts. It is better to start with the correct parts for a 1770's Dickert and go from there. If you have a buttplate that is flattish on the shoulder, 2+" wide, and 5" tall, the correct guard, whatever lock you intend to use, and a barrel with some real thickness in the breech, it's easy to draw your own plans so they come out "Dickert".

Lay the barrel on a long sheet of paper, maybe brown wrapping paper.

Figure out where the touchhole will be.

Now you know where the lock will be.

The lock determines trigger placement. Figure where your trigger goes, and the guard.

Now you can place the buttplate for the length of pull you want and the drop that would be suitable for the shooter and look right on a Dickert.

Now look at several Dickerts in books and see the relationship between the trigger guard, wrist length, and nose of the comb. Note how high the comb is when it meets the wrist.

Look at several Dickerts in Rifles of Colonial America and for the period of interest, figure how long the forearm should be., length of nosecap (generally= length of thimbles), and where the thimbles will be placed.

Within these constraints you can now apply Dickert style and sketch in an outline of the belly of the gun, the line from triggers to the toe of the butt, the comb, the wrist. All those things are dependent on the parts you choose.

ONCE I made the mistake of buying a precarve stock, then trying to make all the parts fit the pre-conceived plan. Lots more trouble than making my own plans.

If you use a different thickness barrel, shorter or longer lock, triggers, guard, height or width of buttplate, all those will confound your attempts to build using a printed set of plans as your guide.
 
Unfortunately, not everyone has the experience or talent of some to just look at a photo & draw it out, grab a chunk of wood & 3 days later have a Jacob Dickert rifle that looks like a Jacob Dickert rifle.....
And if you don't have the experience to do it, a set of plans is a $10. investment & good way to go because it helps you keep things in order of what goes where & how it should look & etc. & helps keep your confidence up while building it. (IMHO)
Same with with a good builders book, most likely it would be basically useless to Rich or Mike & others that have built rifles for years, but for others it is a necessity or they can invest $900 in parts & the end result is a $200 rifle that could be termed as a tennesseelancasterbedfordiac..... :redface:

I have drawings & plans from back in the 70's, and I still get some of them out now & then to see dif. things & ways of doing dif. things on them, and also because I like to look a disectional drawings....... he he he ! :grin:

It doesn't mean at all that the rifle MUST look exactly like the plans are, because tht is just one builders take on how it should look, but it can sure head ya in the right general direction of how it should be...
 
There a a couple problems with commercially available plans. If you're not useing EXACTLY the same parts as the plans it ain't going to do you any good. Second, the plans are only as good as the experience of the person who's drawing them out. What gun/guns these plans makers are looking at while they draw their plans is beyond me. They in general don't look like anything near what they're supposed to be. For the most part these are "fantasy" guns.
What you're buying for $10 is what some guy that may or may not be qualified to know, thinks a early lancaster gun is supposed to look like. In reality most folks could draw up there own design and come far closer.
Experience is gained by doing these types of things on your own. These things are only difficult to do if you never try.
I've got to say, the Isac haines plans look nothing like anything Haines ever built. :shake:
 
If you want to use a Getz Barrel order it now and you may have it in a few years, I'm sorry, do I sound bitter?
Jeff, aka one of the many that Getz still has not filled orders for .
 
I ordered a swamped barrel from L.C. Rice about 2 weeks ago. He said he was getting ready to do a run of them at the end of the week. I got an invoice from him about 10 days later that showed that he had shipped the barrel. Now that's what I call service. :thumbsup:
 
"What gun/guns these plans makers are looking at while they draw their plans is beyond me. " Aint it the truth. Fred :hatsoff: ck some of the Hawken plans.. :rotf:
 
Mike, Most guys building a rifle for the first time are going to buy the parts all from the same place, well, it they ever want to get it together..... The plans are drawn for those parts sets so they will work. Otherwise, the newbies would just as well start with a blank & never would get the rifle built.

I agree, the plans may not be of what the original you may See is, but it is a starting point for a guy starting out & at least he has something to go by.
 
Birddog6 said:
Mike, Most guys building a rifle for the first time are going to buy the parts all from the same place, well, it they ever want to get it together..... The plans are drawn for those parts sets so they will work. Otherwise, the newbies would just as well start with a blank & never would get the rifle built.

I agree, the plans may not be of what the original you may See is, but it is a starting point for a guy starting out & at least he has something to go by.

Oh, I see. I thought these plans were being used to stock a gun from a blank. I thought their intent was to be used as a pattern to be transfered to a blank. :v
One thing I could suggest to anyone who intends to build more than one long gun is to buy all the KY rifle books you can. There is nothing like an original gun as a guid.
 
got my rice barrel in 8 weeks like he told me, just before he hooked up with barbie chambers....yup good service :v ..........bob
 
No only it the Barrel thing getting me down but some dirt ball stole out Christmas gifts out of the trunk of my wife's car. I guess she left if unlocked and they used the trunk release button to get in.
Merry Christmas All.
Jeff :shake:
 
It sounds like most of the commercially available plans are for later-era Dickerts. I think I'll just enlarge some of the pictures from RCA vol. 1 and make up my own plans.
 
Some of the better builders have said it's the only way to do some rifles.Sooo it must work.. Fred :hatsoff:
 
My first three LRs were built from my hand drawn templates and the store ran out of erasers and had to order more. Whew....drawing these templates {Bucks County} was hard work for me because changing one part of a curve, necessitates changes all along the curve and this holds true even w/ a Lancaster's wrist. To me, the most difficult component to "get right" is the buttplate and then the drops at comb and heel. TOW displays LRs from many builders and often enough the heel line of the BP isn't in line w/ the comb. The trigger guards can be bent to fit within reason. To expedite matters, I now enlarge tracings taken from the RCA volumes and modify them slightly to suit the actual components. As I see it,the problem w/ the commercial plans is that one might end up w/ a very "bulky" LR......Fred
 

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