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early rifle charges

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George

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information as to the actual charges used in the early rifles is hard to come by, so any mention of it in the old writings gets my attention. A couple I've collected are interesting.

George Hanger, in “General George Hanger to all Sportsmen, Farmers, and Gamekeepers, 1814, describing the methods of American riflemen during his service in the AWI:

"I will next tell you how they judge what quantity of powder is necessary for their rifles, on active service: for shooting deer, &c. in peaceable times, they never put in more powder than is contained in a woman’s thimble. They take the horn of a deer, make several trials with a ball, always on the powder, and when, by each time increasing the quantity of powder, they find the rifle rather throws back, that is to say, has a recoiling motion, they draw off a small quantity of the powder, cut the horn off, and use it for the actual service before an enemy. From the weight of the barrels of ”˜their rifles being somewhat more, by a few ounces, than six pounds, and the balls so small as ”˜thirty-six to the pound,’ they will carry ”˜more than half’ the weight of the ball in powder."

So, he says they used a deer antler as a measure, tried several shots until satisfied with the load, cut the antler to that exact amount. The 'thirty-six to the pound' is a ball of 50-51 caliber weighing 194 grains. That means they shot the 50-caliber ball with about 100 grains of powder. It seems strange to me that his end point in deciding the proper charge seems to be to limit the recoil, since he doesn't mention accuracy. And his idea of recoil seems different than mine, I think 100 grains in a .50 would kick a bit. I assume that by describing the use of a woman's thimble in peacetime for deer hunting he's saying they used a much lighter charge.

About 45 years later the Englishman Wm. Blane described the rifles used by the backwoodsmen in Indiana, Kentucky and Illinois. He goes into considerable detail as to the size of ball used for different game and general shooting, but doesn't mention the powder charge except to describe how light it is.

"This is the only fire-arm used throughout all the Western States, and is generally from three and a half to four feet long in the barrel. It has one turn in four feet, weighs from twelve to fourteen pounds, has a very small and crooked stock, and carries a remarkably small bullet. The great weight keeps the gun steady; and the charge is so small, that one might almost balance one of their rifles across a gate, and fire it without its falling, the recoil, if any, being so imperceptible."

He doesn't mention a woman's thimble.

Both men seem to be saying the riflemen loaded to avoid recoil, both describe impressive accuracy, but neither tells us what the actual charge was. Too bad.

Spence
 
Spence10 said:
...their rifles being somewhat more, by a few ounces, than six pounds....

...a ball of 50-51 caliber weighing 194 grains. That means they shot the 50-caliber ball with about 100 grains of powder.... ...his idea of recoil seems different than mine, I think 100 grains in a .50 would kick a bit.

I agree. A charge of 100 grains in my 8-9# 50 cals gives notiecable recoil. In a 6# rifle that would certainly be the case. I have one 50 cal rifle (Pedersoli Frontier Carbine) that's in the 6# range, and even 80 grains moves you a bit.

...I assume that by describing the use of a woman's thimble in peacetime for deer hunting he's saying they used a much lighter charge.

The light charge for hunting concept has had my attention for quite a while. My wife is using only 60 grains of 3f in her 54 cal Lyman Deerstalker because she doesn't like the recoil of 80 grains. She limits her shots on deer to 50 yards, but we've never managed to recover a single ball from her deer. All have been complete pass throughs.

I haven't had a chance to shoot it enough to test the concept, but my GRRW Leman Squirrel Rifle is in 45 cal. I made up a 30 grain measure for it, with the thought in mind of using 1 scoop for small game, 2 scoops for average deer hunting, and three scoops if I was ever to think I needed to shoot at longer ranges. When I finally steal some time for protracted shooting sessions, it will be interesting to compare POI and accuracy with the three charges.
 
I've been thinking about this a little more. The low recoil of 100 grains in a 6# 50 cal rifle might also be a backhanded reference to the powder in use then.

I haven't tried it, but I wonder about the comparative recoil if I was using 1f powder instead of my usual 2f or 3f in rifles. I have plenty on hand for my shotgunning. The biggest challenge might be remembering to bring some along next time I'm out with that little Pedersoli.
 
Reading the account closely, it seems the barrels of the rifles weighed about 6 pounds, yielding a rifle weight of 9-10 pounds total, loaded, with a few of the usual things in a patchbox.
 
Didn't read it that way on the first few passes, but you may be right. Even in 9-10# rifles, 100 grains of today's powder would do more than "... find the rifle rather throws back, that is to say, has a recoiling motion...."
 
Here are two more references. Note that while the publication dates are post 1800, the officers who penned these manuals had begun their military service in the 18th century. These are from two British sources.

"FOR loading a rifle, the best powder is not only to be preferred, as not clogging the touch-hole, but is almost equally economical with the common; a fourth of the weight of the ball I have always found sufficient: the same load should be preserved for all distances, as, in service, a man does not know at what distance his object may present itself. The ball should be placed in the middle of the patch, which will be used with the greased side next the barrel, and when fairly rammed down, the pressure should not be repeated [don't tamp it with the ramrod] as that would compress the powder to close in the touch-hole as to occasion it to miss or hang fire. Some rifles are particularly liable to this inconvenience, when that is the case, the touch-hole may be filled by a pin, picker or feather while loading, and afterwards primed. ....., The patches may be either of thin chamoy leather or rags: I have found a closely woven calico the best, and considerably cheaper than leather. The balls should fit, to as (with patches) to require a considerable pressure to force down, but derive no advantage from being to tight as to require the rifle to cut them. The mark of the neck of the shoulder [the sprue] on the ball should be downwards"
Captain John Barber 1804 from Instructions for the Formation and Exercise of Volunteer Sharp-Shooters

The British rifle for the military at that time was .62 caliber, so using a .610 ball as a guide, then according to the above, an 85 grain load would have been used.


"Some hold that a quantity of powder equal to three times the full of the mould in which the ball is cast, is the proper charge; others four times the full of the mold; on this plan a ball of twenty to the pound would be fired with nearly a fourth of the weight of the ball. But some say a third of the weight of the ball is not too much; experiences shews that to shoot at 250 to 300 yards, one fourth or one fifth is enough."
Colonel Neil Campbell from Instructions for Light Infantry and Riflemen 1809

So Col. Campbell mentions a practical gauge in making a powder charger, using the mould to determine the amount of powder. He then would have the men armed with .62 caliber rifles shooting 85 grains of powder or perhaps even 70 grains to reach out and hit an enemy at 300 yards.

In my .54 if I use the 1/4 ball weight standard, I should be hunting and shooting with 55 grains of powder, and using a 1/3 standard mentioned by Colonel Neil (though he dismisses it) I would be using a 75 grain powder charge. (I use 70 grains)

LD
 
BrownBear said:
The low recoil of 100 grains in a 6# 50 cal rifle ....
What he actually said was that the barrel weighed 6+ pounds, not the whole gun.

Spence
 
Loyalist Dave said:
"Some hold that a quantity of powder equal to three times the full of the mould in which the ball is cast, is the proper charge; others four times the full of the mold; on this plan a ball of twenty to the pound would be fired with nearly a fourth of the weight of the ball. But some say a third of the weight of the ball is not too much; experiences shews that to shoot at 250 to 300 yards, one fourth or one fifth is enough."
Colonel Neil Campbell from Instructions for Light Infantry and Riflemen 1809
What we have here is a severe case of dueling sources. Notice anything about the following quotation?

_A handbook for riflemen; containing the first principles of military discipline, founded on rational method, intended to explain in a familiar and practical manner, the discipline and duties of rifle corps: conformable to the system established for the United States military force, and the latest improvements in the modern art of war_, by William Duane, 1812

"Some hold that a quantity of powder equal to three times the full of the mould in which the ball is cast, is the proper charge; others that four times the full of the mould; on this plan a ball of twenty to the pound would be fired with nearly a fourth of the weight of the ball. But some say that one third of the weight of the ball is not too much; experience shews that to shoot at 250 to 300 yards, one fourth or a fifth is enough."

Must be true, everyone seems to agree on it. :haha: :haha:

Spence
 
Loyalist Dave said:
...a fourth of the weight of the ball I have always found sufficient: the same load should be preserved for all distances, as, in service, a man does not know at what distance his object may present itself....

Huh....

That sounds right on the money for my planned 30 grain basic charge with a .440 ball weighing 128 grains.
 
I thought I read somewhere, that when the long hunters went on a hunt, they bought twice as much lead, as they they bought powder. This has led me to believe, that a normal load, was half a ball weight, in powder. I'm sure I'm wrong, because my wife tells me "you ain't never been right. :)
 
More numbers for those interested. :grin:

I calculated the weight of a black powder charge based on 3 and 4 times the volume of the cast roundball.
I used 240 grains of powder per cubic inch to get the final answer. There's some debate about the actual weight of black powder per cubic inch because of variations in the grain size and the weight of the ingredients but 240 grains/in³ is close enough for government work.

The data below is set up in the following order:

Ball dia__volume of ball__multiplication factor__ weight of powder/in³__final load weight

.310 dia = .016 in³ X 3 X 240 = 11.2 grains
.310 dia = .016 in³ X 4 X 240 = 15.0 grains

.350 dia = .022 in³ X 3 X 240 = 16.2 grains
.350 dia = .022 in³ X 4 X 240 = 21.5 grains

.390 dia = .031 in³ X 3 X 240 = 22.4 grains
.390 dia = .031 in³ X 4 X 240 = 29.8 grains

.440 dia = .045 in³ X 3 X 240 = 32.1 grains
.440 dia = .045 in³ X 4 X 240 = 42.8 grains

.490 dia = .062 in³ X 3 X 240 = 44.4 grains
.490 dia = .062 in³ X 4 X 240 = 59.1 grains

.530 dia = .078 in³ X 3 X 240 = 56.1 grains
.530 dia = .078 in³ X 4 X 240 = 74.8 grains

Looks to me like I like the 4 times value for most of my shooting. :)
 
Zonie said:
Looks to me like I like the 4 times value for most of my shooting. :)

Yup. Round them off, and I fall in right down the line.

30 cal- 10 grains. 32 cal- 10 grains. 36 cal- 15 grains. 45 cal- 30 grains. 50 cal- 70 grains (okay, I rounded up a lot!) 54 cal- 80 grains.

Off your chart, but 58 cal- 100 grains. 62 cal- 110 grains.

Sounds pretty good to me, if shooting experience with my particular guns bears any weight in the thinking. :hatsoff:
 
OK.

For all of you big bore shooters:

.570 dia = .097 in³ X 3 X 240 = 69.8 grains
.570 dia = .097 in³ X 4 X 240 = 93.1 grains

.610 dia = .119 in³ X 3 X 240 = 85.6 grains
.610 dia = .119 in³ X 4 X 240 = 114.1 grains

:grin:
 
I'll have to figure it out, I don't load by volume, I sort the individual grains by size then count each grain and load accordingly. I can get off about two well aimed shots every three months doing it this way, as long as the wind doesn't blow.
 
Your data agrees nicely to my experience with my .58. I've settled on 80 grains of FFFg for my rifle. Right on the middle of the loads you calculated. For the smaller bores however I typically use a bit stouter loads, than the four times ball volume measure. BJH
 
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