Effects of the shot-What should I look For

[ravenousfishing]

Here is a question based on some posts on another thread. I am just getting into muzzleloading hunting and I understand that every circumstance is different, but how have the majority of your deer reacted when shot with a PRB? Have they dropped in their tracks, has there been a significant amount of blood at the point of impact, etc? With all of the smoke etc, what sort of behavior besides the obvious would indicate a hit? So far this season, I have shot at 3 deer from a treestand. The first one I know for a fact I overcompensated for drop and shot overtop her back. The second, a nice spike, dropped with a spine shot. The third, I don't know how I missed. After searching several times in the area of the shot and where she ran off into the woods ( I have been hunting on a field edge) and finding no blood on the ground or on any branches I just chalked it up to a bad shot. After all, when the smoke cleared, she appeared to be running away fine. Now, after seeing a few posts about the lack of blood at and near the shot site, I got to thinking, WHAT SHOULD I LOOK FOR?? How about with conicals? Same effect?

 

[MercerLake]

:v In my experience with low velocity projectiles a deer or any other game may show little effect from a shot unless major bones are broken, or the nervous system is destroyed by a spine shot. Heart shots generally result in little or no blood as the pump is stopped, however they may run until the oxygen in the brain is depleted, (about 20-30 seconds worth). Lung shots generally require the body cavity to fill before blood starts to spill from the wound unless a large artery is severed. So expect the animal to run off for some distance, don't assume a miss until you are real sure!
I've had moose keep on eating when lunged/heart shot until the fall over, makes you think you are shooting rubber bullets.
Remember an animal can cover quite a distance in 20-30 seconds, so carry your search well beyond that distance before declaring a miss. :v

 

[roundball]

Try to practice hitting tiny targets and aim for the heart. The heart is lower than a lot of people realize, essentially laying down on the sternum...if the deer is broadside I use the point of the elbow of a foreleg as my aimpoint and slip the ball right into the heart.

Or, if a deer is standing at any other angle, visualize where the heart is inside and angle the ball through that spot, even if you have to come in from behind the ribs on a shallow quartering away shot...go for the heart.

My target is always the heart...they usually make a mad dash for 6-7 seconds and collapse in sight of the stand 25-35 yards away...sometimes crashing into a tree in the final body lengths as they're dead on their feet, can no longer see/navigate, etc.

GRID SEARCH
In a situation like you described, if you can't find a patch of hair or blood at the initial spot, the next best thing to do is a grid search...when I bowhunted and shot a deer right at dusk, by the time I stopped shaking and got down it would be black dark and if I couldn't readily find the spot where he'd been standing to get a line and pick up a blood trail, I'd start a grid pattern search to try an intercept the blood trail.

If I had a general idea of the line he took (ie: West) I'd start a series of semi-circle sweeps at roughly 10 foot intervals and eventually cut the blood trail that way...and it can be several body lengths before any blood starts to show.

There are a lot of good deer hunting/tracking/blood trailing articles on the internet...you can also Google some up and read through several

 

[jtmattison]

Look for signs in the animals bahavior like staggered walk/run, walking/running with it's tail down, hunkered walk/run. They will sometimes trot off with no indication of a hit but if you have a good hit to the vitals they should show it in their behavior.
The key is to do a thorough search and don't give up unless you know for a fact you missed, you see the animal laughing at you , or you find them dead.

HD

 

[paulvallandigham]

First mark where you shot from.Then put an arrow on the ground by scuffing the turf with your fett, pointing to where the deer was standing when you fired your shot. Then scuff another arrow( or use a stick) to point where you last saw the deer.

Now, leave your stand and go to where the deer was standing when you fired your shot. IF YOU HIT the deer, there are almost always FLINCH marks on the ground, where the hooves of the deer make an involuntary jerk, leaving to two inch or longer scrap where all four feet were positions when the deer was hit. Now, look beyond the deer to see if you can find fur on the ground or hung up on brush. You can also look for blood, but don't EXPECT to see blood this soon.

Study those for tracks on the ground. Draw a picture of each hoof, both toes, and note any deformations or chips out of the edges of the toe(nails). There are 8 toes on every deer. That is a lot of toenail surface to be chipped, broken, split, or permanently damaged.

Now, Mark that spot with your hankerchief, or something that will allow you to see it again from your stand, and from the place you last saw the deer. Walk back to your stand, and now follow the second arrow to where you last saw your deer. Mark it. Go back to the place where the deer was hit, and begin looking for its tracks as it ran or walked away. With a walking deer, you will find prints every 16-20 inches. With a running or leapin deer, the tracks can be 6 feet and more apart. Understand that the back feet will be pushing off, regardless of the gait, and they will eave the most disturbance, the deeper prints, or impressions, and kick out the most leaves. The faster a deer moves, the more disturbance it leaves behind.

PUT THE GROUND YOU ARE STUDYING TO FIND THE NEXT PRINT BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR SOURCE OF LIGHT. Look for shadows comeing off the walls of the tracks. Look for flattening or "Shine ", with light bouncing off the flat survace at you eye. crouch, crawl, lay on the ground, kneel, but you will see much more " sign " the closer you are to the ground.

If you find drops of blood along the trail, Its a pretty good indication that you have wounded the deer. Trim a dead tree limb, or stick to be about 4 feet long. Put one end of the stick on the ground next to the blood drop, and then walk the stick forward, lowering it to the ground as you move in the direction that the tracks show you the deer went, and you will find the next drop of blood within 6 inches, one way or another, of the end of that stick.

Remember that deer are mammals and have dominant and non-dominant eyes.
[url] http://wildwoodtracking.com/limbdominance/ld07.html[/url]

When a deer is frightened or hurt, or both, it is thinking of escape, and finding a place to get cool, to break the fever it feels coursing through its body. that means the deer is seeking deep cover, or water or both. It also means that when it reaches a fork in a trail, it is going to take the fork on the dominant eye side of its body, all other things being equal. Most deer are going to be Right Eye Dominant. So, if you are having trouble seeing the tracks, or blood, but the deer is following a trail in the woods. take the right fork of the trail every time. Also, look behind you to see if the deer is veering right or left, as that will give you an idea about eye dominance. If you learn to read tracks, you can see the dominant foot print, and be sure, but I can't teach you to do that here. Once its shown to you, you will never forget it, and you will always be reading tracks. You can also determine sex from the footprints, and once seen, that is never forgotten. It works for all mammals, but is easiest seen in bi-pedals, and in quadra-peds who are indirect registering, diagonal walkers. This includes people, dogs, and all the members of the deer family. Gallopers, Bounders, and pacers among the mammals are much more difficult to sex determine from tracks. Direct Registering diagonal walkers are also difficult to sex determine from tracks( cats and fox).

If you miss a deer, the tracks will tell you so. There may be a flinch if you are close enough that the noise spooked the deer, but generally there is not. What you will see if you track the deer is that within a very short distance, depending on if the deer is shot at in an open field or in the woods, the deer will return to a walking pace, and may even begin feeding again, as if nothing happened. Some deer may circle around to look to see what it was that scared them, but most are satisfied to rely on heir ears. If they don't hear any noise made by a pursuer, and they don't feel the sound of a predator's feet in the ground through their feet, they will walk away unconcerned. don't be in a hurry to follow, and don't yell, or make big motions with your body.

I hope that helps you sort things out. I would hate to see you let a wounded deer wander off and suffer a lingering death simply because you don't know how to read tracks and sign well enough to find the deer and finish it off.

 

[ravenousfishing]

Thanks for the replies and any more input on the presense or lack thereof of blood is very interesting and welcomed. On the deer in question, not only did I look, but so did two friends of mine who are expierienced bow and muzzleloader hunters. We are all convinced that I flat missed. The reasoning for this post stems from the difference in EXPECTED results between PRBs and copper conicals fired from an unmentionable type of muzzleloader with sight enhancement, since that is what all of my friends hunt with. Their results tend to involve a noticable amount of blood loss, a deer dropped in its tracks,or some kind of OBVIOUS change in the behavior of the animal. On the surface, one would EXPECT that a 54 cal hunk of lead would have at least the same results, since the majority of its energy would be transfered into the deer instead of being carried away with the bullet as it passes through. After all, a 1/2" plus sized hole is fairly substantial. But, from what I am reading so far, it seams fairly common, if not normal, for there to be no evident blood loss at the point of impact or within the first 20-30 yds with a PRB. This is not in any way meant to doubt the ability of a PRB nor is it an invitation to decry my friends choice of firearm. I enjoy shooting a traditional stlye rifle, but I am the only one in my group to do so. I am just curious with what to expect after the thing goes BOOM.

 

[roundball]

And a final comment in case it might apply...if you sighted in/zeroed your rifle from a bench rest and then went out hunting, it will almost certainly always shoot higher than the POI from the bench.

The reason is that we we get all hunkered down over the rifle on a bench, we become more like an immovable backstop which controls the amount of recoil, which limits the amount of "recoil arc" that a rifle can make up off the bench.

With sights adjusted while in this bench shooting position, then we take most any shot while hunting like from a sitting or standing more upright position, the recoil will move us back more easily, allowing the recoil arc of the muzzle to go up higher, and the POI will therefore be higher...may account for the high shots you mentioned.

After initial bench work, it's usually a good idea to make any final sight adjustments from the actual hunting positions you'll most often use in the field...your groups won't be as tight but that's OK...you already know the load groups well...at this time you're just trying to adjust the group's POI so that's where it'll shoot when you trip the trigger at a deer's heart.

 

[playfarmers]

All good advice. I tend to fallow the flight path of the deer and if not found inside 100 yards, I start a grid search. When a shot feels good I look for a long time.

 

[Halftail]

Some things I have found to look for after the shot is how the Deer reacts to the shot(Providing you can see through the smoke)Secondly if it's running I look to see if it's tail is up or down.Down,pressed tightly to it's hind quarters or Flopping around Loosly indicates a hard hit Deer.Third,I always mark the spot where I last seen the running deer.Maybe take a compass bering if i'm in unfamiliar territory.Another thing I have found of Deer that are hit with a roundball in the Vital area is that they tend to run in a straught line untill they "Pile up".
Most Deer that I have shot with a RB and get a complete pass through I only find some Hair and some skin and little amounts of blood so paying attention to all the details is important.Ironicaly the only Deer I have ever lost was shot with a Modern High Power rifle.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I am just getting into muzzleloading hunting and I understand that every circumstance is different, but how have the majority of your deer reacted when shot with a PRB?

Couldn't tell - too much smoke. :rotf:

And I'm only half kidding.

I've never gun-shot a deer from a treestand. :hmm: Arrowed a couple, but, come to think of it, all my banging has been from ground level.

My favorite was a frontal at about 12 or 14 yards. He reared up on his hind legs and then went straight down in a heap. Gotta love that. Took the top of the heart and split the liver and diaphram.

Round balls do seem to leave much less hair than an arrow or a shotgun slug - both of those shave a handfull at times on both sides, if you're lucky enough to get full penetration. I strive to put the ball in the lower 1/3 of the chest just behind the foreleg. Heart shots are great, but I usually opt for a double lung to avoid the forelegs (big bone and good steaks and roasts - things I don't want to put a ball through). The deer collapses in 3 to 14 seconds - which can be 100+ yards with a motivated deer or three steps with a bewildered one.

A deer that lowers it's tail and hunches is a sign of a gut shot. Kicking it's rear legs could also be a hit farther back. Let these deer sit an hour before pursuing. Unless you're in a super heavily worked and hunted spot give any deer you don't see collapse 20 minutes to expire. If you keep pushing a wounded deer you'll likely lose it.

Listen. After the shot you may hear clues to direction change (or a face-plant or tree collision). I took what we call a "grouse shot" at a deer that rushed past me within 10 yards during a drive. It went into afterburners and veered slightly away and ran right into a tree fifty feet further along hard enough to snap off one antler. I think that deer actually killed itself before the blood loss had a chance.

 

[The Baron]

I have only shot 1 deer with PRB and that was a big doe last Saturday. I hit her high through both lungs with a .490" ball. No ribs were hit, so I think energy transfer was minimal. She took off at a run but collapsed 50 yards away in mid stride. There was hair at the point of impact, and some spashes of blood on the snow but nothing spectacular (would have been tough to see the amount of blood if there wasn't snow). When I field dressed her, there was about 2 litres of blood in her chest cavity. Because she was hit high, she was not pouring blood when standing.

I had it easy due to the snow and had my deer found in less than a minute. If there was no snow, I'm sure I still would have found her quickly because she had not gone far. The advice above is good, to think clearly and mark the spots where the deer was hit, where you last saw it, etc. The deer's reaction to the shot doesn't seem to mean much, especially if no major bone is hit. My deer was shot well but took off like nothing had happened.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I can't possibly guess why you missed the deer at such a close range. All I can suggest is that you must practice more shooting off-hand, after you have established a good, accurate load by shooting off a bench rest. As Roundball suggests, don't be surprised if the gun shoots to a different point of impact when shooting off-hand than when shooting off a rest. I adjusted my sights to shoot on for me me while shooting off-hand, as my rifle is a hunting gun and not a bench rest rifle.


I saw my wife miss a deer standing 20 feet from her by shooting under its belly. When she pulled the trigger, she relaxed her forearm, and I could actually see the muzzle drop down just as she fired. That can be a problem for all shooters, and is something that off-hand shooters have to work on to improve their shooting.

When I hunt now, I try to stay near trees, or have a walking stick with me so I can use it to brace the forestock of my gun for any shot at game. I have killed deer with off-hand shots. I have also killed deer using trees and a stick as a brace. It just takes a little practice to get used to using them. I used support posts at my club range for the roof over the firing line to learn how to hold my gun against a tree. I took my walking stick to the range to practice using it to support my rifle. I found if I kick the bottom of the stick out towards my target, so that the stick is leaning back into the web of my hand, I can have a more solid rest to use in shooting at game, compared to holding the stick vertically.

 

[captaincaveman]

can't believe all you guys shooting at the heart :shocked2:. Ya blowin up some dang good eatin right there :wink:

Josh

 

[jethro224]

It really doesn't matter WHAT you shoot 'em with. Sometimes they fall right down, sometimes they run off. The only thing to expect is that the deer will do whatever it wants to do until it can't do anything. There are a lot of things that can make a difference as to what happens after the shot.

The most important thing is to know exactly where the deer is standing when you shoot. Pick a landmark. If possible, seeing where the deer ran from there is very helpful. The longer you can see 'em the better.

When they do run off, there will usually be hair at the place they were standing, but not always. There will usually be blood spattered beyond, but not always. There will be noticeable tracks where the deer took off. Follow those.
Usually there will be a noticeable blood trail by the time you get 20 - 30 yards, but not always. Look close and learn to follow other sign.
Usually there will be a dead deer within 100 or so yards, sometimes they go farther. If you take the shot, you owe it to the deer to do everything possible to find the deer or confirm a miss.
Same rules whatever tool you hunt with.

Good luck out there! :thumbsup: