Elk Hunters???

[Wink]

Elk Hunters; being a complete novice on Elk I was hoping you might answer a few questions. I know I could just go buy a book on the subject but I'd rather hear from real people who hunt Elk, not some proclaimed " hunting expert" who has unlimited funds unlimited time and access to the best private ranches. 1)Assuming you're going on A ML Elk Hunt.How much preseason scouting do you do? 2) When do you do your scouting? 3)What type of sign or terrain do you look for? 4)Whats your favorite tactic ? Thanks Wink

 

[oletymepreacher]

1) as much as possible. I have hunted the same area for many years, but elk are unpredictable and might be no where to be found. Usually about a week's worth. It's a bad idea to stink up the woods with our scent, so scouting with binocs/telescope is the way.
2) As close to season as possible, usually in late August.
3) Look for elk. Not much use finding old tracks and manure. Beat down game trails, watering holes, bogs where the bulls like to roll. Scraped up trees are interesting, but during ML season the bulls are chasing cows, not scraping horns.
4) Hunting tactic is to cruise the woods. I find stand hunting very boring and have not killed while on a stand. Climbing a ridge, just below skylining seems to work best. go slow but cover a lot of ground. After the sun comes up, elk will bed down on a ridge where they can see both sides of the ridge, as well as catch your scent.
Good luck, but remember we make our own luck.

 

[jbtusa]

When the elk's biological clock tells them that hunting season is opening, and they know when!, they head for the thickest, highest, remotest and most god-forsaken darned-able thicket they can find and they stay in it until well after dark and go back into it well before light!!!!

Everything changes after opening morning so scout for the thickest cover that you can find in known elk territory.

 

[greyghost]

It depends on what state you're hunting in. I agree with everything Oletyme said, however he's in Colorado and not Arizona. His hunting will be like Wyo. or Montana or Idaho or even Northern Arizona. But down here we have elk down to the 2000 ft elevation sometimes which is desert. So if you are going to hunt in an area like that, waterholes are your best bet in Aug and Sept because it's still hot and they need the water.
Unlike a mule deer, an elk will travel miles for water. When you scout, find out thier patterns for food shelter and water and try to intercept them. :thumbsup:

PS: Be assured that once the shootin starts, they will go nocturnal.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I supose that differant regions would have their own unique traits but here in Western Oregon the Roosevelt elk we have have a home range of up to 20 square miles (4 x 5), they tend to feed in a circle; When you have scouted enough you can do a fair job of patterning them. By noteing when and where you spot a heard each time and THEN where they tend to enter or exit a location (prime trails) you will get a good idea....This also tells why they often are NOT where you hope they should be on opening day (cuz they have moved on) so you can be ready to move to their next way point.
Also always watch the "lead cow" She says when and how fast they move; The bulls usually are last in line following the heard single file. Get the lead cow to pass you undetected at say 50 to 75 yards and the bull will be there shortly.

 

[MercerLake]

:v Here on the Oregon coast we have terrain that ranges from flat pastures, deep canyons, and high ridges all covered with salal, ferns, devils-club, new reforested areas, and "old growth". Elk are pursued or disturbed from end of August to end of Sept(bow hunters), CF deer (October), CF elk (November), and finally the MZldr's get a chance pus competing with the occasional late season special tags and of course the criminals at night. After all that can you be successful? Yes! Wife and I when we can draw a tag we hunt the ridges into wilderness areas a few miles from the house. Preseason scouting doesn't do us much good here, they are where they are today. Have to look for tracks, feeding areas, and lots of cover, cover alot of ground. Good binos are a must, as is a map(mark it up with notes year to year). Elk are creatures of habit even with alot of disturbances. :v

 

[longcruise]

1)Assuming you're going on A ML Elk Hunt.How much preseason scouting do you do?

As much as I can, but it has to be just before opener otherwise you are just going to know where they were back then. I can't always scout but I hunt familiar areas so it does not take too long to get things figured out.

2) When do you do your scouting?

Like said above, as close to opener as possible.

What type of sign or terrain do you look for?

Sign can be deceiving. Even when you are onto fresh sign, you have to figure out what time of day they are creating that sign. Overall broad geographic considerations are important. If you are hunting a large river valley with only small streams flowing into it, then the elk may have been coming into the bottom of the main valley to feed at night prior to the season, but once it starts they will stick higher up. One area I hunt has a lot of road access up high but no access between the flat easy terrain up top and private ranches below. For that area I make my way along the edge of the public property boundary after the pressure above has pushed them down. Elk don't always go up when they are under pressure. They will go in whatever direction takes them to where they feel comfortable.

4)Whats your favorite tactic ?

I prefer to still hunt very slowly along wooded secondary ridges. I often stop and stay in one position for 30 to 45 minutes and let out some cow calls about every ten minutes. The cow calls will bring a bull without cows or might bring a bugle from a bull who hears the cow call. The bulls bugle is meant to invite the cow to come to him. It is "unnatural" for the bull to go to the cow. But, they will if they don't have any cows of their own. A bull is just as likely to answer a cow call with a bugle as he is another bull bugling.

A lone bull with no cows may come to your bugle or at least carry on a conversation with you. A herd bull who is being challenged is thinking about moving his cows away from the challenger. I rarely bugle at elk any more.

The other thing about cow calling is this. Most hunters I hear cow calling are doing chirps. Sometimes in rapid and loud succession. That kind of cow calling is getting close to a cows alarm signal. If you get a chance to hang around elk that are undisturbed you will hear the cows constantly chirping to each other in a low unhurried way. Usually just one or two chirps. They are just keeping in touch with each other.

When a cow is ready to breed she lets out long mournful mews more like a cat mewing than the chirp call. Most cow calls will make this sound with little practice on your part. The Lohman is one of the easiest to use. You bite down on it and start the mew at high pitch and release pressure as you blow so that the mew drops down to a lower pitch as you blow A breeding cow mew should be at least two seconds long and four is ok. Just three of four mews together about every 10 or fifteen minutes will get results.

It's not a bad idea to sit in one place and mew every 10 or fifteen minutes for as long as two hours. I do however rarely stay in one place for more than 45 minutes but i'm a restless person. As you move and still hunt, the occasional mews will have the elk thinking that the occasional footfall you make or branch you might snap is just other elk in the area. It helps explain the noise to them.

And finally, the wind or air movements are your geatest enemy or friend. An elk might see you move and be concerned but stay put trying to figure you out. When an elk smells you it's gone. If there is no "meteorological" wind (if ya get what I mean by that), then air movements in the mountains will be start flowing down hill after sundown and will begin to flow back up hill when the sun warms the valleys. So, if there is no "wind" blowing, then you want to get high and hunt down after the air starts to flow up. If you can't do that, hunt sidehill. Don't waste your time trying to hunt up hill when the air is flowing up hill.

Cripes, I meant for this to be a brief reply. :shocked2: Sorry for making such a long post.

 

[greyghost]

Jeepers Marmotslayer !! You get vacinated with a phonograph needle? :rotf: :rotf:

 

[laufer]

1)Assuming you're going on A ML Elk Hunt.How much preseason scouting do you do?

As much as I can, but it has to be just before opener otherwise you are just going to know where they were back then. I can't always scout but I hunt familiar areas so it does not take too long to get things figured out.

2) When do you do your scouting?

Like said above, as close to opener as possible.
last two weeks of august and the first one in september.

What type of sign or terrain do you look for?

Sign can be deceiving. Even when you are onto fresh sign, you have to figure out what time of day they are creating that sign. Overall broad geographic considerations are important. If you are hunting a large river valley with only small streams flowing into it, then the elk may have been coming into the bottom of the main valley to feed at night prior to the season, but once it starts they will stick higher up. One area I hunt has a lot of road access up high but no access between the flat easy terrain up top and private ranches below. For that area I make my way along the edge of the public property boundary after the pressure above has pushed them down. Elk don't always go up when they are under pressure. They will go in whatever direction takes them to where they feel comfortable.

4)Whats your favorite tactic ?

I prefer to still hunt very slowly along wooded secondary ridges. I often stop and stay in one position for 30 to 45 minutes and let out some cow calls about every ten minutes. The cow calls will bring a bull without cows or might bring a bugle from a bull who hears the cow call. The bulls bugle is meant to invite the cow to come to him. It is "unnatural" for the bull to go to the cow. But, they will if they don't have any cows of their own. A bull is just as likely to answer a cow call with a bugle as he is another bull bugling.

A lone bull with no cows may come to your bugle or at least carry on a conversation with you. A herd bull who is being challenged is thinking about moving his cows away from the challenger. I rarely bugle at elk any more.

The other thing about cow calling is this. Most hunters I hear cow calling are doing chirps. Sometimes in rapid and loud succession. That kind of cow calling is getting close to a cows alarm signal. If you get a chance to hang around elk that are undisturbed you will hear the cows constantly chirping to each other in a low unhurried way. Usually just one or two chirps. They are just keeping in touch with each other.

When a cow is ready to breed she lets out long mournful mews more like a cat mewing than the chirp call. Most cow calls will make this sound with little practice on your part. The Lohman is one of the easiest to use. You bite down on it and start the mew at high pitch and release pressure as you blow so that the mew drops down to a lower pitch as you blow A breeding cow mew should be at least two seconds long and four is ok. Just three of four mews together about every 10 or fifteen minutes will get results.

It's not a bad idea to sit in one place and mew every 10 or fifteen minutes for as long as two hours. I do however rarely stay in one place for more than 45 minutes but i'm a restless person. As you move and still hunt, the occasional mews will have the elk thinking that the occasional footfall you make or branch you might snap is just other elk in the area. It helps explain the noise to them.

And finally, the wind or air movements are your geatest enemy or friend. An elk might see you move and be concerned but stay put trying to figure you out. When an elk smells you it's gone. If there is no "meteorological" wind (if ya get what I mean by that), then air movements in the mountains will be start flowing down hill after sundown and will begin to flow back up hill when the sun warms the valleys. So, if there is no "wind" blowing, then you want to get high and hunt down after the air starts to flow up. If you can't do that, hunt sidehill. Don't waste your time trying to hunt up hill when the air is flowing up hill. thermals will kill you!!

Cripes, I meant for this to be a brief reply. :shocked2: Sorry for making such a long post.

this deserves to be read one more time, no need to appologize, thank you very much for poutting this all together for everybody to see how the scouting in the several western states is done.

(i humbly added my comment on when i go scouting to your post, i hope you do not mind. thanks again!)
:thumbsup:

 

Agreed. that's good information Marmotslayer. Thank you. :v

 

[longcruise]

(i humbly added my comment on when i go scouting to your post, i hope you do not mind. thanks again!)

And that nicely clarifies for Wink.

It's surely tough for out of state hunters to take the time to scout. Just a good reason to spend the entire season in elk camp!

I have three out of staters coming to hunt CO for the first time this year. A cousin and a couple of his good friends. Their scouting will be done for them but then there is that thin air to deal with. :shocked2: I have mostly hunted from 9,500 to 11,500 feet last few years but I'll be taking these guys to country that will not have them over about 9,500 max.

 

[longcruise]

Jeepers Marmotslayer !! You get vacinated with a phonograph needle?

That is funny!! :haha:

 

[Wink]

Thanks to all who contributed you guys are the best! One last question....I've noticed the Colorado Elk ML season is in mid September. I know it can be warm that time of year and have heard that Elk are more intolerant of warm temps than deer. Because of this do you often have to go up to higher elevations where its cooler to find elk? Based on past hunts what elevations have you found Elk on average?

 

[Idaho Ron]

While I haven't chimed in yet I will throw in my .02. How high is of less importance than where. Look on north facing slopes with heave timber with open areas . Key in on areas that have water. Elk will "hole" up any time. They will look for areas where they can dig into the cooler hillside and lay in the dug out spot.
Another thing to look for is public land next to private. Check the fences for hair and sign that they have jumped it.
I will disagree with one post. Elk that are NOT plagued be wolves are easily patterned. From year to year if you find areas that elk use they will use that area again. One small draw I hunt in November ALWAYS has bulls in it during the migration.
Here in September I have one canyon that I take people to find elk and bugle. I have went there every year for the last 10 years and they are always there. Ron

 

[longcruise]

Some good points Ron. I will add that I've seen years where the amount of snowfall and the spring melt patterns in a very large drainage (VERY LARGE) have resulted in no elk in areas that had elk in a previous year. Can't document it for a fact, of course, but it seems to me that elk migrate in the spring according to earliest green up and earliest opening of migration corridors.

OTOH, like you said about the area that always have elk in them. I've seen the same thing in areas that tend to have milder and more predictable snowfall.

Luckily we don't have the wolf problem to deal with........yet! :shocked2:

I know it can be warm that time of year and have heard that Elk are more intolerant of warm temps than deer. Because of this do you often have to go up to higher elevations where its cooler to find elk? Based on past hunts what elevations have you found Elk on average?

It's true about the elk response to warmer temps. Much of their behaviour is driven by efforts to stay comfortable. Much moreso than deer. Even when you find them in areas of steep terrain, they are nearly always traveling trails that do not involve any very long steep slopes. They tend to wind around and keep their travelways as easy as possible. Kinda like people. They may travel some very rough terrain to and from bedding and feeding areas but their bedding and resting areas are usually relatively comfortable terrain.

Also, be aware that when you find bedding areas they can be either night beds or day beds. If in an obvious feeding area, those beds are where they have layed down during the night between feeding sessions. Day bedding areas will be in areas like Ron described.

Keep your eyes (and nose :haha: ) open for active wallows. In fact, keep your nose tuned all the time. If the air is right and moving from the elk to you, you will smell elk before you see them.

They do respond to temperatures by going higher if there is good feed available up higher. I have seen cool seasons where there were no elk in low areas that they seemed to like other years. The prime factor seemed to be a dry summer. Even though it was cool, the precipitation was better at higher elevations during the summer and therefore that was where the better feed was.

 

[Vaino]

Our camp is at 10.500 ft. in the San Juan Nat'l Forest in SW Colorado and we've been hunting the same area since 1987. Mainly MLer hunts but also a few modern and bow hunts. Actually we hunt higher than the camp {11,300 ft max} and it takes 2 days to acclimate and by the 3rd day, we all feel normal.We hunt the heavily wooded slopes, constantly moving and "cow calling". Years ago "bugling" worked, but lately it doesn't produce in our area while the cow calling does bring 'em in. Elk have a much more tight "herding instinct" than deer so it's really feast or famine and a lot of ground has to covered to "hit the jackpot". On the warmer days, we hunt the north or east facing slopes in heavy fir cover where if possible. there's slow water seepage. Shooting in this type of cover is difficult but my .54 PRB or my son's .50 cal. Buffalo Bullets have done the job quite nicely...Good luck....Fred

 

All the scouting in the world won't help at all unless you are in good shape, I don't do much scouting anymore because I hunt the same areas of public ground for the last few years and I cover a lot of miles and and all around 7-8000 feet.Assuming you are coming from around sea level you are going to have to be in better shape to adjust for the elevation. Around here the elk change their pattern the days before the season starts because the huge increas in road traffic. Depending on how dry the fall is they will travel several miles to feed in hayfields at night and be back in cover by daylight. there are always some that stay up high and don't come down until the shooting is over. We don't have a ml season for elk in montana and don't want one I know a lot of guys that hunt with traditional equipment and don't have any problem getting our elk during general rifle season. but for someone just starting you may want to go to one of the states where they let you hunt them when they are in the rut and are distracted. This will make your odds a little better as the elk is at a disadvantage.

 

[longcruise]

Your comments about physical conditioning are spot on! I live at 5,600" and usually hunt at 8,500 to 11,500 feet and believe me, living at 5,600 does not get anyone ready to hunt.

Anybody who plans to hunt the high country for elk should begin serious bicycle riding in February or serious jogging/running in May. When a prospective high country hunter can sustain continuous peddling on a bike for three hours at a pulse rate of 130 to 150 or continuous running/jogging for 1 hour at a pulse rate of 130 to 150, then they are at a minimal physical readiness level for a serious high country hunt for deer or elk. It can be done at lesser levels of conditioning, but plan to take days off and also be ready to say to yourself "dang, wish I was better prepard for the physical aspects of this hunt" as you turn around and head back to camp knowing that continuuing on is just no possible. At age 62 (63 for this year's opener) I have been there and done both. Would have bothered me a lot if I had to turn around while doing the "hunt of a lifetime".