Elk Loads and Bones

[Herb]

Questions arise about minimum loads for elk hunting. So I got a leg bone from an 800 pound elk cow, killed with a 140 grain handload from a 7mm Rem Mag, which apparently destroyed most of a quarter. Hung it up at 100 yards and shot it with my .54 Hawken I built, using 60 grains of Goex 2F and a roundball at about 1350 fps (chronographed). Didn't know the zero, so shot twice at the sheet of paper. Any holes below the paper were from another day.

Then I held over the bone about even with the top of the paper and missed. There was a breeze and the front sight covers about 6" at 100 yards, hiding the bone. Second shot hit the bone and broke it.

Next I tried to hit the knuckle but couldn't see where my shots hit so couldn't correct, some hit in the shade of the bone.

I used .019 linen from JoAnn Fabrics, bought a couple of years ago. Recent stuff is about .012. Three or four of these patches I picked up and used again. Two were .020 OxYoke, the breeze drifted one. Hit the round bone and it really cracked in sound. Hard to see where the ball hit, I think it is in the base of that tall spike shadow. It did not crack the bone.

So this load broke an elk leg bone at 100 yards, but it might not have penetrated the elk's body to kill it. When I used this rifle as my spare on my recent elk hunt, my load was 120 grains of Goex 2F.

 

[roundball]

That's getting pretty close to the real thing for testing...thanks for sharing the info.

 

[wattlebuster]

Interesting :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Then that soft lead ball has to keep going into the lungs for a clean kill if it dosen't glance one way or the other missing vitals all to gether.
Great pic but to use a pure lead ball on a shoulder shot is a good way to lose an ungulate.

 

[Herb]

Thanks. That was the point of shooting the bones. I didn't know if that light load would break the leg bone, but experienced hunters such as you say "don't shoot no big bones" and some say "use enough gun" (either in caliber or loading power).

 

[Greenmtnboy]

yup I agree it all comes to is it pure lead or a cast hard conicle.
I personally don't shoot shoulder for it waste meat but each to his own. I know the "anchor it" crowd and IMHO an elk will die in two min or less with a double lung shot so why take the chance.
Sorry about being redundent I missed your post at the bottom of the pics.

 

[Herb]

Greenmtnboy, I enjoy your posts and pictures and experience. Could you tell us how far you think an elk can go with a broken leg, as in my photo? And what hope would a hunter of little elk experience, such as us asking these questions, would have of catching up with it and killing it?

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't know about elk, but I can tell you that thinking a broken leg will "anchor" a whitetail deer is flawed thinking. I have seen three-legged deer crossing the road months after gun season with one leg hanging limp. Sure, you explode a belted magnum in the shoulder the force will stun an animal. But a round ball (or lead slug) is a different wound.

We have a three-legged cat and he runs MUCH better than he walks.

Shoot for the vitals - the rest is incedental.

 

[rawhide]

I'm with greenmountainboy on this I also like a bioler room shot. most of the elk I harvested were 50-60 yards away. I used .380 grn real bullets that I cast from soft lead. and 90 grns of FFFg 777. awsome elk load for my cva .54 hawken. leave a big hole. I aim of the tip of the shoulder. deadly shot!

 

[hoochiepapa]

Thanks. That was the point of shooting the bones. I didn't know if that light load would break the leg bone, but experienced hunters such as you say "don't shoot no big bones" and some say "use enough gun" (either in caliber or loading power).

My dad and I tracked a cow elk around four miles one time, he had shot with his 7mag. Broke the shoulder we found her on a rocky point looking like she was gonna jump. I know, sounds wierd but it's the truth. We caught up with her, and as we approached the rock point, she was looking down. I finished her off with my 30/06.

She was here.

 

[Idaho Ron]

A friend of mine killed a cow once that had a leg broken by a centerfire rifle. The break was almost the same spot as the test leg. The leg healed and was usable when my friend shot her. She had a nasty cyst and a ton of scar tissue but the leg worked.
One thing the test above doesn't have is tissue and skin to slow down the ball. I personally don't think the test has any worth while value. Now if the bone was in ballistic jell with a layer of fresh elk skin that might be different.
I have chased down a few elk that were wounded. It is a tough ordeal. One guy I used to hunt with never made a good shot with any rifle. Man we always ended up tracking his game.
An elk with the wound as shown above would be at least a 4 to 5 mile tracking job with a questionable outcome. Elk are tough. Ron

 

[longcruise]

An elk with the wound as shown above would be at least a 4 to 5 mile tracking job with a questionable outcome. Elk are tough. Ron

Indeed it would be if that was the full extent of the wound, but there is no reason why the elk might not have had both lungs take out as well.

 

[Spikebuck]

Agreed on smaller game than elk that a leg hit alone can mean a long trail and perhaps an unrecovered animal that ends up living a long life. One year I saw a big doe limping across a field with a horribly broken leg which was still dangling by dried tissue. I thought to myself that she'd certainly die before winter. Well that doe fed on my Dad's corn all winter all healed up (lost the leg) and in fact was a dominant deer rearing up and kicking away other deer with her one good front leg.

On the other hand, I saw a hunting show the other night that said a cape buffalo will go right down (not die) and cannot move with a broken leg because it's mass is just too great to support on only three legs, allowing an easy followup shot. Perhaps one has a better chance the bigger the animal is to get a second shot if the first only breaks the leg.

 

[pkarr]

I agree totally with Greenmtnboy.I've been pretty lucky over the years and have taken quite a few critters (mule deer, elk ,antelope and one big ugly wild boar) with a.530 pure lead ball.Most fell within sight, others were short easy tracking job.All shot behind shoulder thru lungs. This year I drew a premo elk tag in NW Colo.I hunted solo and killed my bull on the next to last day.I shot my bull at @70 yards, slightly quartering, ball went in behind shoulder and broke the far shoulder,he just stood there so I loaded up and put another in the same place that did it.Didn't go 10 yards. This was by far the biggest bodied animal I've killed with a muzzleloader,90 gr of fffg and .530 ball. I'll try to post a pic if I can figure out how.My only regret was I didn't have my new flintlock but maybe next year.

 

[Idaho Ron]

An elk with the wound as shown above would be at least a 4 to 5 mile tracking job with a questionable outcome. Elk are tough. Ron

Indeed it would be if that was the full extent of the wound, but there is no reason why the elk might not have had both lungs take out as well.

Well first off that is a hind leg so I don't think it would enter the lungs :rotf:

If you look at the splatter where the ball entered the cardboard it appears to have lost all shape and was nothing more than shrapnel. I doubt that if it would have been a front leg that ball would have done enough damage to kill the animal quickly. If that would have been a front leg that animal would have been a tough one to find. And the hunter better have a good layer of snow to help him out. Ron

 

[Herb]

Ron, I thought it was a front leg bone, but you are correct.

 

[Bill Hall]

Front legs terminate at the shoulder blade, and aren't connected to the main skeleton. Just like a deer, you can easily cut off the front legs with a knife. It looks like that leg has the ball joint that connects to the hip. Doesn't change the validity of your experiment, just saying cuz I can. :grin:

It does look like at least one of those balls splattered after hitting the bone, which demonstrates the poor penetration when hitting a major bone. I think I already mentioned on another post about hitting a cow in the shoulder blade with a .54 roundball. Shattered the shoulder blade, but had no penetration. She didn't go far before I finished her off, but I was really surprized at the amount of outer damage to her outside caused by the ball, but no internal damage. I believe I found some lead "bits" in the shoulder, but no ball or even large pieces of the ball. Your experiment mirrors the experience I had with that cow, so it looks pretty valid. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your results. Bill

 

[Idaho Ron]

You might want to check again SD. That ball joint is not the one that attaches to the hip. There should be one more bone between that ball and the hip socket. Ron

 

[Cascade Pete]

I'll have to agree. A double lung shot is the way to go. Elk are very resiliant, and can take alot of damage and still keep on trucking. A Nice slow, big bullet is the best. Small and swift create alot of feed for the coyotes. Many suburban hunters go with the myth of faster is better. I can show You rotting elk carcasses in My back woods from this wrong thinking. Many of them have blown out shoulders and rear quarters. I usually find 2-3 a year. This year was a boom year with alot of rookies hunting to suplement a lousy economy. Could not save any meat or any hides. Have a bunch of fat coyotes sleeping near the cabin. So To make a short story long, Elk are not deer, and punch them in the lungs with a big ball or rifle caliber..../.50/.54/45-70/.444 Marlin
This is where I live in the Cascade Foothills..Not a Rookie....

 

[hoochiepapa]

Nice!! When you gonna invite us out?