Em Arn't No Good!

[Zonie]

Em arn't no good. Folks speaking about using roundball shooting muzzleloaders have been heard saying things like this for years.

As this whole thing is My Opinion, I'll leave that out of what I am saying.

Most modern hunters have been brought up with cartridge guns and the belief that Muzzle Energy is a great thing. The more, the better.
Folks with these beliefs often wonder how a old fashoned front loading thing shooting powder which hasn't been greatly improved on for 150 years can possibly be a useful tool with which to hunt.

The answer is Caliber and Momentum.

For a number of years this idea has been around but ignored by the High Energy crowd, but I think anyone who has seen game knocked off of their feet, or crumple to the ground after 10-40 yards of running will become believers.

With Muzzle Energy calculations, the velocity is squared. That gives small changes in velocity a big influence in the final answer. The formula for this, simplified is Velocity X Velocity X bullet weight in grains divided by 450000.
Notice that caliber has nothing to do with this.

My own feelings is that caliber has a great deal to do with knock down and killing power.

Take for instance the .223 shooting a 55 grain bullet at 2900 FPS muzzle velocity. That gives it 1027 Ft/Lbs of energy. At 50 yards it will be going around 2600 Ft/Sec which is 826 Ft/Lbs of energy.
A .530 (223 grain) roundball with a m.v. of 1600 FPS has 1268 Ft Lbs of muzzle energy. At 50 yards, it will be going 1162 Ft/Sec with a energy of 669 Ft/Lbs.
Using the Bullet Energy thinking, the .223 is 23% better for taking your deer than a .54 round ball. Most folks I know don't think this is true.

Using the Momentum X Caliber method, we see the following for the above comparison.
The .223 = 2900 (muzzle velocity) X 55 X .223 =35568 (Its just a number for comparison, but the bigger it is, the better it is.)
The .53 ball = 1600 (muzzle velocity) x 223 x .54 = 192672

At 50 yards:
The .223 = 2600 X 55 X .223 =31889
The .530 roundball = 1162 X 223 X .530 =137336

For a .50 caliber gun shooting a .490 round ball at 1750 FPS muzzle velocity the Momentum X Caliber number =151777. For a velocity of 1224 at 50 yards the answer is 106157.

This number is interesting because if we calculate the Momentum X Caliber (MXC) for a 30-30 shooting a 170 flat point bullet at 2100 FPS MV, at 50 yards its velocity will be about 1910 FPS. That gives a MXC value of 100008. (Remember, the .50 cal was 106157).
I think those who have seen a 30-30 and a .50 roundball take a deer will agree the killing power is similar at 50 yards.

For a .45 cal shooting a .440 roundball at 1820 MV, at 50 yards it's velocity will be about 1211 FPS. Its MXC equals 68203 which is about the same as a .243 shooting a 86 grain bullet with a MV of 3200 FPS (66873).

So, what does all this really mean?
Velocity is still important but Caliber has much to do with knock down and killing power.
The Black Powder muzzleloader, when shot within reasonable ranges is as effective as many of the smokeless cartridge guns when it comes to taking game. They use velocity, we use Size.

Good Hunting to you.

 

[roundball]

My own feelings is that caliber has a great deal to do with knock down and killing power.

:agree:...No question about the added benefit of "frontal area".

That's why a big S&W .45 Long Colt with a .452/250grn slug will kill a deer in a heartbeat while the "faster, more powerful" .357mag may not...frontal mass and weight for penetration.

I was exactly like one of those people raised under the "faster is better concept" but over the years I began to learn differently (ie: .45 Long Colt) and then big slow moving muzzleloading conicals, then round balls, etc.

And I've also thought about the middle of the road .50cal ML as a comparison with the .30-30...essentially the same performance at typical woods distances.

Two main differences with muzzleloaders is that they're not 300 yard big game rifles, and that they're a lot more fun to take deer with at 40yds than to take them at 300yds with a high power rifle.
:imo:

 

[Keith]

Along the lines of caliber is the frontal area. Many handgun hunters use hard cast lead bullets with a big meplat. The meplat is the flat front on the bullets nose. These guys have been reporting excellent performance for years.
Then there is also the fact that a centerfire rifle with a lot of energy has to use some of that energy to make the bullet expand to work. I don't know if anybody has a way to quantify this, but you have to figure that a large amount of the enrgy that a .300 Snotsmacker has is used not on the animal but the bullet. The big advantage, like RB said, is the added range of a centerfire. Or at least the potential, lots of experienced people, guides for example, find most people can't shoot effectively at long range.

 

[Rat]

What is "Em"??

 

[Stumpkiller]

Similar to "Dem" and "Dose".

As in: "Dem gals" or "Dose broads"

Regional colloquialism. Unfortunately, being from Arizona, it is like Latin and Sanskrit - spoken by few living peoples. Somebody should record Zonie for future anthropologists.

 

[Slamfire]

An artist with a good sense of proportion can design a bridge. The fellah who tries to reduce it to numbers is an engineer, of sorts. :cry:

 

[Rat]

But em is good.

Rat

 

[shmrck1]

Zonie,
:agree: i'll take em PRB anytime over the alternatives!!
snake-eyes :m2c: eace: :thumbsup: