End of the pecussion era sporting rifles?

[Pittsburghunter]

I would like to see some pics of the last sporting rifles made before the cartridge guns came along or even some that were still being made and sold because how well they shot?

There must have still been percussion guns being made while the Henrey's and Winchester's were perfecting their designs.

I guess I am looking for post Civil War sporting rifles?

Are there parts around to make such a rifle?

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I know this will be unpopular but to me I think builders hanging in there till the end need some reconition and to be honest I do not recall what the last rifles looked like?

 

[mikelange]

James Whisker's "Gunsmiths Of West Virginia" contains the biographies of and pictures of guns made by gunsmiths who were still working in the early part of the 20th century. This is obviously only one small part of the country, but the guns I'm thinking of were halfstocks, either starkly plain to the point of crudeness or very graceful, with a multitude of inlays. How they shot isn't recorded in the book, but one presumes that their makers, being the successors and former apprentices of the previous generation(s) of Virginia gunsmiths, knew their craft.

Henry Leman's factory in Lancaster was still turning out muzzleloading rifles and trade guns at the tail end of the 1860's, perhaps a little later. One of the Hawken brothers' workmen, by the name of Gemmer (according to Flayderman) bought the Hawken works and was still, presumably, turning out guns of that pattern at least up to the Civil War.

Then you get to the likes of Hacker Martin, who was taught at least some of his craft by men who'd been around at what we consider the tail end of the muzzleloading period -- late 1800's, maybe even early 1900's -- instead of having to learn it all by research and guesswork, and the line between the "original" and "modern" gunsmiths starts to get a little fuzzy.

And I really haven't addressed your exact question, have I? Something along the lines of a late Hawken or Dimick rifle -- halfstock percussion, likely of larger caliber if intended for Western use, likely of smaller if it was staying east of the Mississippi, more likely than in earlier days to have a backaction lock -- would qualify as a "generic" rifle of the time period you're talking about. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can elaborate on and if necessary correct the information I've provided.

 

[fho]

Pittsburghunter:

Get Ned Robert's book : Cap Lock Rifles.

Olie

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Thanx guys, I was wondering if back actioned rifles was what I was looking for. Olie do you think I would find that book at a library?

There just seems to be a gap that I know the guns were still being made as viable hunting guns but no patterns have been reproduced to my knowledge.

There are English sporting guns I have seen but what about American arms.

 

[shunka]

there is a bit of research needed for sure. There are nooks and crannies of isolated builders.
I have a book with a B&W photo (taken with a Kodak!) of an Appalachian gunmaker who was building long halfstocks well into the 1890's - 1900's. And the Hudson Bay Company continued to sell the standard muzzeloading 20 ga. NW Trade gun in caplock well into the 1930's.

Caplock rifles, shotguns, and muskets continue to be mainstays in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia.

Whilst I was going to school at Purdue ~ 1975, the local Black Powder shop had a special order T/C in .54, all metal parts were plated with "Armaloy" (Industrial Hard Chrome, very very corrosion resistant). They put together a complete set: rifle, modern powder container, about 200 Maxi Balls, Round Ball Mold, Maxi Ball Mold, patches, case of caps, several rods, etc.

The whole shebang was going home with an African (Kenyan?) exchange student. He said with a 150+ gr load, he could take anything. They were able to get all the BP, caps, and lead they wanted, but cartridges were severely regulated. When Kodiak came out with their large bore Doubles, I figured that feller would probably be first in line..
.

best
shunka

 

[sidelock]

The LAST SPORTING RIFLES ain't ben made yet.

 

[rich pierce]

The book, "Steel Canvas" by R.L. Wilson has many fine examples of late percussion rifles.

 

[fho]

Pittsburghunter:

I bought one from a friend but you should be able to get one at the library. The name is: The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned H. Roberts. It is mostly about slug bench guns but also about guns that shoot slugs. I think that all of the long range rifles shoot slugs.

There is a new printing of this book but I don't know what it costs or where to buy it.

Hope this helps.
olie :thumbsup:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

The library I struck out at but they promised if I found the book they would get it even if they had to buy it. I was impressed my tax dollars actually helping me a middle class guy for a change. In the mean time though I have found this site which shows me that most late model pre cartridge guns were in fact rear actions. Most it would be impossible for me to build because the whole rifle is a steel unit and I could not build one. There are exceptions if you check the site out some of the rear actions look like something I could buy parts for.

There is a waterproof shotgun I would kill to own and a New Hampshire made breech loader that is very cool. Hide your checkbooks and take a look at this site.


Link

 

[fho]

Pittsburghunter:

Do you have a libary that is in a co-op, where they can get books from other librarys. The book is out there, you just have to find it.

Good luck
Olie

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Great Western Gun Works continued to make and market muzzleloaders at least up to the early 20th century. Standard was half stock but fullstocks were made to order. They were all percussion with conventional front action side locks. Just your basic late Kentucky half stock. They were small calibers, .45 being the largest, and ran on down to about .22, but listed by balls per pound. Their adds claimed they were made to shoot both round and pointed bullets, whatever that ment. :grin:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Yes Oli they told me to find the data (publisher etc.. ) and they will locate it and even buy them if nessasary. like I said nice to see my tax dollars working for a change.

 

If you go to WWW.LOC.GOV , that's the library of congress. There is a search engine their that if you type in the author, or title or both it should give you an "isbn" number, and that is all your library will need. Bill

 

[fho]

Pittsburghunterifh:

The name is: The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned H. Roberts. A Stockpole Books.Harrisburg,Pa. 17105. It also say it is a NRA Library book.

Hope this helps,
Olie

 

[clayfeld]

There are several copies of the Ned Roberts book available through[url] abebooks.com[/url], the best place to look for out-of-print books of any kind. They're all about $35.00, although I got the best one earlier today after reading this thread!

Author: Roberts, Ned H.
Title: The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle
Bookseller Book ID: 012259
Price: US$ 35.00

Book Description: Special edition. Full leather with gilt, four raised
bands on spine, all edges gilt, silk end papers with gray ribbon
bookmark attached. An extra nice copy, like new. 528 pages.

Man! The book should be almost as good as the rifle!

I'm interested in the same era. I recently bought a .34 cal Midwestern style half-stock, with a hooked and snail-type patent breach and a plains style capbox. Said to be from the mid-late 1800's. I'm trying to do minimal repair/restoration to make it shootable, but if I can't, I'm going to draft a plan of it and build me a shooter, getting as close as I can to the original.

Have fun!
Clay
San Jose

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Rich, I bought "Steel Canvas" today at Borders. Although it has some fine rifles in it, it was not very helpfull as far as nailing down guns in the period I am looking for. I was tempted to keep it as a book table book but found myself bored after about 45min with it. You see I am not into the fancy inletting and scroll work which I think is the authors main push in the book. Even the example of a plains rifle he shows has about an ounce of silver wire on it.

I do like the simple homemade type work like say Zonie's stars or half moons and such symbols that meant something to the person who used the gun on a daily basis to survive. He did show one trade rifle that had a broken wrist fixed with leather and tacks that I thought was real cool.

If I was into 1800's centerfire rifles and pistols it would be a different story but thank you I did enjoy checking it out. It made for a great lunch hour.

I am still looking for Ned's book locally I like to check books out before I permanatly own them.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Pitsburghunter,

Many of the rifles in THE MUZZLE LOADING RIFLE were manufactured after the AMERICAN CIVIL WAR. These rifles were a combination hunting/target rifle and rifled for an elongated slug, not a PRB. A number have the muzzle turned for a Pope style starter.

This is a great reference book with much information.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, Why not? I am carrying your load.