English fowler thumbpiece

[Onojutta]

What materials were used for mid-18th century English fowler thumbpieces? Would a simple oval thumbpiece be appropriate, or were they usually more decorative?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Silver, brass, paktong, and occasionally steel or iron. Thumb plates on good quality guns made in the first 3 quarters of the 18th century usually were cast and then sculpted by a silversmith.

You might find simple flat inlays from sheet silver or brass on lower quality guns. During the last quarter of the century simple flat ovals and other shapes became popular on all grades of guns replacing the ornate decoration of the past.

dave

 

[PathfinderNC]

Scary this much talent!

 

[Onojutta]

Scary this much talent!

As grateful as I always am for dave_person's replies, I am equally humbled.

 

[TDM]

Dave's work is just amazing.

 

[Rudyard]

Scary this much talent!

Not scary They did it, the silver smiths, but not the 'all rounder' like Dave . The trade was all about specialist's in one part or another .We today don't have the handy pool of artizans so we have to do what we can if few ever match such as Dave .Ime only saying that because its true . & I don't want to borrow a Quid ($)
Regards Rudyard

 

[TDM]

What materials were used for mid-18th century English fowler thumbpieces? Would a simple oval thumbpiece be appropriate, or were they usually more decorative?

If your Fowler is more of an everyday, huntsman' gun then something simple would be appropriate. I even cut down an old silver spoon once trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I just have a simple brass one on my Trade Gun.

 

[TransYank]

Hey guys I don't want to steal post. Was a thumb plate used on a better build gun? I have several English double barrels some have a dime sized oval. Some have a similar diamond shape. Some nothing?. I believe my guns are common hardware store variety build in 1850's to 70's.

 

[Rudyard]

Hey guys I don't want to steal post. Was a thumb plate used on a better build gun? I have several English double barrels some have a dime sized oval. Some have a similar diamond shape. Some nothing?. I believe my guns are common hardware store variety build in 1850's to 70's.

These escutions became the dwindleing remains of the large bold & ornate earlier ones ,The thinking was you the customer could have his initials or some armorial crest . But even the cheaper offerings had some on the wrist. Once BLs came these as oft got moved to the belly of the stock. Better guns had gold or silver lesser offerings' might get ' german silver' - white brass .I don't think it had any thing to do with the thumb that digit would be holding round the wrist .
Rudyard's notion

 

[TransYank]

Thanks for the response. That makes sense

 

[Bushfire]

@dave_person while we’re discussing this sir, on a gentleman’s hunting rifle for the late 18th to early 19th century would the thumb piece have the owners initials engraved? I’ve seen them plain and with some lovely engravings but I can’t remember if I’ve seen them wi try initials.

 

[dave_person]

@dave_person while we’re discussing this sir, on a gentleman’s hunting rifle for the late 18th to early 19th century would the thumb piece have the owners initials engraved? I’ve seen them plain and with some lovely engravings but I can’t remember if I’ve seen them wi try initials.

Hi Bushfire,
Many were engraved with initials, monograms, and heraldry. What is surprising to me is how many were not engraved even on expensive guns owned by people with means to pay for it. Perhaps the gun was bought without any engraving on the plate and the owner simply never bothered to have it engraved.

dave

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I promised Onojutta in a PM that I would post this picture. It is a simple cast plate I designed that could easily be reinterpreted with sheet metal and simple 2 dimensional engraving. Essentially it would lose the relief but still look appropriate for a simple gun, particularly one made in the American colonies but copying English styles of the time. As Rudyard wrote, the decoration on English guns was rarely done by the gun maker. It was the product of highly skilled specialists. Colonial gunsmiths did not have that resource unless they used imported decorations. So they made their own designs and often mimicked more elaborate English fashions. The OP's gun looks like a good colonial product emulating English styles. and a sheet metal version of the plate I show would be appropriate for that objective.

dave

 

[Onojutta]

Thanks again Dave. I have a brass sheet in my workshop that might fit the bill for a 2-D version.

Here’s the gun so everyone else can see the context. It’s intended to represent a Fowler made in the colonies in the British style. It’s my first Fowler so I wanted to keep it very simple. TOTW sells an English Fowler thumb piece but I thought it was too ornate for my simple carving. The only other retail option I could find was a simple oval which wouldn’t have been exactly PC for mid-1700s.

 

[Rudyard]

Thanks again Dave. I have a brass sheet in my workshop that might fit the bill for a 2-D version.

Here’s the gun so everyone else can see the context. It’s intended to represent a Fowler made in the colonies in the British style. It’s my first Fowler so I wanted to keep it very simple. TOTW sells an English Fowler thumb piece but I thought it was too ornate for my simple carving. The only other retail option I could find was a simple oval which wouldn’t have been exactly PC for mid-1700s.

I don' t think a medium size plain brass Escution is out of period, I have just such an original piece that has just that . the stocker was good but all the mounts are plain Suggests he was a stocker but no hand at engraveing the brake down in the gun trade would seem evident .'
Rudyard

 

[Loja man]

Onojutta,
I looks like we’re in similar situations! I have a friend finishing a Chambers PA Fowler for me, all metal mounted. But after looking and reading many of Dave’s posts I decided to make it with a standing breach. Love being able to pull the barrel for cleaning!! Anyway he is about ready to start finial shaping the stock. I’m on the fence about a thumb piece….I would like one in nick/german silver…in my mind it fits better with the metal furniture. But not loving any of the options so far. First photo is what Kim Kibler is providing with his new Fowler. I like the simplicity of it but don’t love the brass… Second is one that I think Jim Kibler made years ago…I found it on a post where they were selling them as pendents for necklaces. No longer available. Last one is a little busy but it dose speak to me. It is advertised as a French thumb piece on Muzzloaders Building Supply… so would it be sacrilegious to put it on a English style gun…I’m assuming it’s a copy from a original French gun..
Any thoughts from the more experienced? Any other leads on other appropriate thumb pieces?

 

[Onojutta]

Loja,
As oft happens with my builds, life gets in the way and I have not made much progress since this post. I decided I will make a plate as Dave Person suggested above, but I haven’t made up my mind on the material. It seems that brass would be more appropriate for a gun representing one made in the colonies such as mine, but I much prefer the contrast of silver thumb piece with the brass butt plate and trigger guard.

I’m surprised there aren’t more commercially available options. Can your builder make you something custom or from his is own design like Dave did?

 

[PathfinderNC]

I did a simple brass sheet oval on a long Fowler I built several months ago (which is brass mounted). It’s understated but the gun is not elaborate. It is a nice accent piece.
An interesting thing I saw in Dave’s tutorials is that these thumb pieces were not always flush mounted and in fact some were standing quite proud of the wrist.

 

[Rudyard]

There' escutions' nothing to do with any one's thumb but its your gun do what you fancy
Rudyard's
view

 

[PathfinderNC]

There' escutions' nothing to do with any one's thumb but its your gun do what you fancy
Rudyard's
view

True, but the wrist escutions are often called a “Thumb Piece”

Ps: Jim Chambers sells them in brass, steel or Sterling Silver as per his website.