Engraving Question

[Swamp Buck]

I have a few engraving questions that need to be answered.

I have watched the Jack Brooks DVD he has on engraving (several times) and over all it doesn't look impossible to do, I just would have to practice quite a bit before actually working on engraving a muzzleloader project.

The question I have is this, what gravers do you guys use for engraving? The square graver he used in the DVD was much larger and looked easier to hold on to, compared to the ones I just received in from various muzzleloading supply companies. I was quite surprised at how small they were when they came in the mail. Do you guys use these, buy them from somewhere else, or do you make your own?

Also, do I have to heat treat the ones I got in the mail or are they ready to use?

Thanks in advance for any and all help or opinions.

 

[shortstring]

I mostly use square gravers. If you can find a machine tool supply that carries 1/8" square tool bits,they work fine. It's handy to have a bunch of the bits so you can sharpen them up & use them as you break the points off when engraving. Sharpening is probably as big of an issue as the actual engraving. I would have to check the angles for sure but I think my graver has a 45 deg face angle & 10 deg bottom angles. You'll need to come up with a good reliable way to do this sharpening.

Paul

 

[LRB]

They come ready to use. Your first challenge is to learn to sharpen one properly. As far as using, I mount mine in a maple grip that allows the heal of my hand to be in contact with the graver shaft, and long enough to tap it with the hammer. Some of my gravers are made from file steel, but the best ones I bought. Invest in a Crocker sharpening jig. They are maybe $35.00, and well worth it. Here is a shot of most of my tools. The Crocker is there also.

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[ricklandes]

I learned (and continue to learn) just as you did following the DVD, watching Linton McKenzies beginning DVD, reading James Meek's book, Peter Alexander's Gunsmith... book, reading various on-line forums...
I have bought EC Lyons hand push gravers, IngraveR beginners kits, and made my own from 1/4 square W-1 steel. Each to me has their place and purpose. The one I made, at this point, I like the best. I rounded the 6" piece leaving about a 1 1/2 taper to the point. The point is quite blunt and somewhere in that 45 degree cut. I sharpened it with a ceramic stone to a bright polish and then I use a 3/16 drill bit as a guide to lay the chisel on (about 3/4") from the point to cut my side edges. I do not use a heel on this chisel. I hold the chisel in my left hand and tap it with a 11/2 oz chaser. I have only my left pincky to hold the graver with so I hold it at a sharper angle than most. Small light aps will do the job. I use the IngraveR gravers to cut finer accent lines and the Lyons push gravers to cut very fine areas.

Just get a small piece of flat HR steel. Draw nothing! Just try to cut a bit. It not need be strait or anything. You are just playing with the tool to get the feel of it. many times people say you are striking the chisel too hard. I know there are times when I tap using less than a 1/2" swing...soft enough that one could almost put your finger between the face and the top of the chisel. try cutting with the tool 90 degrees to the surface and try tipping it toward the outside of the curve (I heard somewhere opposite a motorcylce cornign and it stuck with me). This is bright cutting and will leave a flared groove. When the strat and stop seems easy. Now try to draw a line or a small curve cut to the edge of it, do not remove the line. Do not woory if it is not as deep strait...as you think it should be. Remember this is supposed to be fun learning.
Try a bit everyday if you can. Even if it is a couple of short taps of 5 minutes. I think it helps you to keep in focus.

Try a piece of brass when you feel oK with the steel. Go slow! Practice. Also, do not be afraid of lightly sanding the burrs left by your cutting. High end engravers do have to sand a bit, not all but some. You are learning your own style not a duplicating machine of theirs. Others styles are fine to copy for practice but develop waht feels right to you.

I was terrfiied when I first tried to engrave on my first patchbox. Than it seemed to flow a bit more then it was OK.

I am convinced anyone who will take their time and practice and not have expectations of immediate perfection will do well at engraving.
I see patterns now that I know I can do that I would have cringed at a short time back. You will do the same

Good Luck and have FUN!

 

[Randy MacInnes]

You can also go to the webe-site of GRS also knowing as Glendo and order thier sq steel engravers they run around $7.00 - $9.00 each if you do order the Glen Steel it's all you need for engraving ML guns. Then make yourshelf some handles that fit you. You don't have to spend a lot of money and don't need to heck I know of an engaver that uses the big end of a cue stick for a hammer. :hmm:
So you can spend alot of money or stay cheep and have fun go slow and take your time I think someone said 5 to 10 min a day that is what I try to do but the next thing you know an hour goes by then 2. Just remember 45dia for the face and very small heel of 15dia on the heel right and left side

 

[Jim-Iowa]

I bought Meek's Book and graver selection from Brownell's and have been scratching a little.
Not anything I would call good so far.
Every time this subject comes up, I am forced to kick myself for being so naieve in my youth.
I worked in a grocery store while attending Newton High School and carried Groceries out to the customers cars.
Bruce Meek was one of the customers who I saw every week. He had told me he was an engraver and I had no clue, what opportunity I was missing.
I never even knew I knew James Bruce Meek until he was no longer with us?

 

[LRB]

Swampbuck go here for plenty of info, advice, ect. http://www.igraver.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1

 

[Randy MacInnes]

That is a great web-site I check it out every day for new ideas Sam does some neat stuff on there. Not to bring it up again but if you go to the web-site of GRS they also have some good instuctions on sharpening and it's free just have to look them up and check them out.
Engraveing can be alot of fun even if you can't do high qulity work, If I look outside right now the snow is blowing and we have alot of ice here in Michigan :barf: so it's back to the work shop and maybe do some engraveing.Maybe they will let us open up an area just for enraveing on this web :wink:

 

[Swamp Buck]

Thanks everyone for the advise, information and encouragement.

 

[flashpanner]

This kidna new for me too. I am teaching myself and practicing on brass. I have access to alot of small scrap brass blocks. I'd like to see some of your practice pieces.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm practicing on a 1873 SAA by Uberti at the moment. Worked most of the day on it yesterday and got one side of the frame done....boy there's a lot of area to cover on one of those! :surrender: :haha: I guess I wouldn't have to fill it all in, but the temptation was overwhelming..... :youcrazy:

 

[Roy]

Now ya know ya can't go on talking about what your engraving with out pics... :nono:

:grin: :haha:

 

I wanna see, too!! :applause:

 

[LRB]

Me too, me too!

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm still pecking away at it. Finished the frame finally yesterday. I've got a bit to do on the barrel yet and then onto the back strap. Going to be awile yet. I'll probably have to post the pics in the non ML section...I'll give a heads up here when I do. It's been a fun project. :grin: