enough spark?

[dewnmoutain]

Well, it is getting to be that time of year. I have finally completed college and now it is time to play with the firearms. One of them I cannot wait to play with and learn is my flintlock. I purchased this a couple years ago, tried messing with it, had no luck and then stuck it on the shelf with the knowledge that today would come.
Well it has, so as i look at it, i decided to dry fire it to performs a functions check. I noticed something odd, at least to me. I didnt see a large amount of spark when the flint it the frizzen. Is there supposed to be a lot of spark? or a little bit? I was expecting to see something more than one or two sparks, like perhaps over a dozen+.

Thanks for the input and advice/

 

[LRB]

You are right. There is a problem of some sort. Could be any or a mix of the following.
Poor flint
flint postion as to bevel up or down. Try bothways.
Frizzen not hard enough. You should not be able to cut it easily with a file. Maybe scratch it at best.
Main spring too weak
Hammer/cock dragging on wood.
Spring or tumbler dragging on wood inside
And, there can be other causes.
What make is it? If custom, what make and style of lock?

 

[dewnmoutain]

off the top of my head, i know its a Pedersoli, i think its a kentucky flintlock.

 

[SgtErv]

Flint angle might be another issue. It's been the biggest help to me. Check out the "frizzen gouging" post in this thread - lots of great advice there

 

[jimmy82]

Had a lot of issues with my wife's Pedersoli. It's the Pennsylvania, but I think it uses the same lock as their other smaller lock style rifles. Hers busted rocks though, even with what appeared to the eye as having good geometry. It took a lot of tweaking to get it shooting right, even had to drill out the touch hole liner some.

 

[Semisane]

You may be getting more spark than you think. Did you try it in a dark room? My Pedersoli Hatfield does not seem to throw a lot of spark, but it fires just fine. I did enlarge the touch hole a bit for better ignition. Flint life if quite good.

 

[excess650]

What flint are you using? I generally have black English or French amber. I've tried some Missouri chert, but they didn't seem to work in my locks. I've just recently picked up some Texas flints, and they seemed to spark well, but I haven't given them the workout (yet) to bless or condemn them.

Verify that the sparks that you are getting are going into the pan!

My preference is as small touch hole as will be reliable, and my quickest flinter has the smallest at less than 1/16". I think the TC liners are closer to .07", and larger than that will dribble fffg, so larger than I want.

Experiment with quantity of powder in the pan. Some guns fire just fine with just a small amount of prime, but others will need a full pan.

I will wipe the frizzen with my thumb between shots and pick the charge after the 1st shot from a clean gun.

 

[Walks with fire]

Good to see you getting time for shooting your rifle. I remember very well when I first got into flinters. This site will help you a lot as you progress. Many have given you some possible causes for your fail to spark enough. As long as it's lighting the pan up every time I wouldn't worry too much about the quality or quantity of the sparks it throws.

You will learn a lot as you tinker with your rifle and what makes it tick. I find the greatest satisfaction in tuning up a rifle and over time you will get very good at it. It's a learning curve just like anything else. Just remember not every modification is going to work the way you intend it but you will learn from it.

A good rule with metal and wood; once it's gone it gone, so proceed with caution. Keep a flint sharp and unless a frizzen is toast it will fire every time.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Pedrosoli s are know for having a heavy frizzen spring. Lightening the spring will help. :idunno:

 

[matt denison]

Why in the heck woud anyone "lighten the main spring" to get more spark. ?? C'mon, sheese.

The OP needs to go shoot that gun to see if it is going off in a decent manner before anyone can diagnose a problem. Maybe there is no problem at all.

Rule of thumb: You don't need a whole lot of sparks, you only need one good spark quickly in the pan where it belongs for quick reliable ignition.

..but what do I know... :surrender:

 

[Spikebuck]

Is there supposed to be a lot of spark? or a little bit? I was expecting to see something more than one or two sparks, like perhaps over a dozen+.

RE Davis has some nice pictures of locks sparking in slow motion that can give you an idea of what it should look like:
http://redaviscompany.com/1121.html

Not only a lot of sparks, but they need to be falling into the pan. I like to check mine in the dark and if all tuned and set up properly, you will see lingering glowing embers in the pan (no powder in the pan...just dry fire).

 

[Cowboy]

Spikebuck, Love the video!

I too am a brand new babe to flintlocks! Have been srictly a caplock man until now!

Just bought my first flintlock and am awaiting for it to arrive! :grin:

Do not know what to expect in shooting one because I never have.

The video was very informative. Gave me sort of an idea of what to look for and expect.

I'll stop right here, I know squat about shooting flinter's! At least for now! :youcrazy:

Thanks for sharing! Is greatly appreciated.

Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[MC One Shot]

dewmountain

Although there is a lot of excellent experience and knowledge on here, some times you cannot beat hands on advice and lock time. I would suggest that you contact your local BP group and see if there is any one there that can help you. Of course take all the knowledge you can garner from here with you. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

While it is true that a single spark will ignite a pan, a large number of sparks will build the pan ignition faster. At Friendship we watched a batch of slow motion video, including the one mentioned above. In that session we watched locks right side up, up side down, with every grain size of powder. The more sparks landed, the faster the fire in the pan built up. Jim Chambers was sitting beside me and pointed that out to the crowd of guys watching.

Regarding granule size, smaller sizes built the pan fire faster, as you would expect. When fired up side down, a lock may actually be faster. The prime is falling toward the sparks that are driven upward. The sparks have time to fall only 2 mm or so before hitting the sparks. When using cannon grade up side down, some chunks of powder fell past the sparks without igniting.

IMHO a well tuned lock placing many sparks in the pan of 3fg is likely faster than a poor lock placing 1 spark in a pan of 4fg. Never underestimate the importance of spark production as a function of lock speed. (Follow menu in the link below for more slow motion stuff.)

Link

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Crewdawg445]

Why in the heck woud anyone "lighten the main spring" to get more spark. ?? C'mon, sheese.

The OP needs to go shoot that gun to see if it is going off in a decent manner before anyone can diagnose a problem. Maybe there is no problem at all.

Rule of thumb: You don't need a whole lot of sparks, you only need one good spark quickly in the pan where it belongs for quick reliable ignition.

..but what do I know... :surrender:

I believe he was referring to the frizzen spring, not the mainspring. With a frizzen spring being to hard it can indeed impact reliable sparking. However, I do agree you need to shoot the rifle. Playing with it inside is fine and dandy but you'll never know how reliable your ignition is.

If you can't shoot, load a small charge, prime the pan and there you go.

Personally I've had multiple issues with pedersoli locks, I'm not a fan of any production lock for that matter. However you certainly should not have any issues with the rifle going bang, a little TLC on your factory lock can make a big difference, even installing a new flint bevel up or down in the cock jaws can make a world of difference.

I to have an old Hatfield, obviously replacing the lock on this piece isn't an option due to its value. However, being the only "factory" lock I own, it's just as reliable as my Chamber's and L&R locks.

 

[nwtradegun]

with the lock off the gun. in a darkroom, when fired it should have a shower of WHITE sparks. yellow or orange is a sign of improper heat treated frizzen.

 

[LRB]

with the lock off the gun. in a darkroom, when fired it should have a shower of WHITE sparks. yellow or orange is a sign of improper heat treated frizzen.

I heartily disagree. Yellow and or, orange is a plenty hot enough spark. White sparks burn up fast. In some locks, too fast.

 

[Crewdawg445]

with the lock off the gun. in a darkroom, when fired it should have a shower of WHITE sparks. yellow or orange is a sign of improper heat treated frizzen.

I heartily disagree. Yellow and or, orange is a plenty hot enough spark. White sparks burn up fast. In some locks, too fast.

:thumbsup:

I agree, differences in opinions will always loom on this particular matter. Without a doubt an improperly hardened frizzen will definitely throw orange sparks, and a lack of sparks for that matter.

I have a lock that throws nothing but orange sparks, but plenty of them. Certainly nothing wrong with it or the frizzen, no lack in ignition. :thumbsup:

 

[Tom Compton]

Summary: A sharp flint that is correct size, mounted to strike at the proper angle will produce good sparks from a properly hardened frizzen.

First adequately define the problem. Spark the lock in dark or near dark. Where are they falling. If plenty go into the pan shoot the gun.

Second if above is not happening send up pics of the lock at half cock with frizzen closed. Sharpen the flint either by Knapping or w a diamond file.

As someone posted above find an experienced flint shooter to guide you thru the intricacies of our preferred ignition system.

Enjoy the journey
TC

 

[Rick Boylan]

I own the same rifle. I didn't know if mine was throwing enough spark so I just put a little powder in just the flashpan and fired it. It went poof like it should.

I then took it to the range and loaded it without a ball. Just the powder down the barrel, a patch and some in the flashpan. Boom! After that I loaded it up normally and it shot every time. The only time it failed was when my flint got too dull and I had to knap it back to being sharp.