Walks with fire
54 Cal.
How much 2f powder in a 50 cal. PRB load is enough for deer out to 100 yards. Assume a heart/lung shot. Would 70-80 grains be enough? I have always used at least 90. What do you think?
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IMO, that's probably pretty subjective...but FWIW, my personal approach is to use max/near-max charges for deer hunting loads and not entry level/mid-range charges...then there's no question about the outcome.Walks with fire said:
To me personally, I could never come up with any reason why I'd want to go big game hunting with target loads...the difference in powder cost is of no consequence...the difference in recoil is never noticeable during live shot execution on game...the difference in accuracy is not an issue...and I don't know what other considerations there would be.
So when I go to the range on Saturdays, I use lightweight 50-60grn target loads of Goex 3F...that would 70grns 2F.
When I go deer hunting I use 90grns Goex 3F...that would be 110grns 2F.
What RB said plus.... I use 90g of 3f in my 54cal and that load will push a round ball through a deer at 100 yard. I personally think that people need to use the amount of powder that gives them the best accuracy out of their gun. Usually that's enough to kill the animal they're after. More powder you use = more recoil = more flinch = miss placed shots.
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I agree with roundball on every point except regarding accuracy. Accuracy is NOT a non issue. Some guns just shoot poorly with certain loads and all the powder/power in the world won't help on a missed deer. Slowpoke has it right on the money. Accuracy first, power second. A ball through the lungs stopping under the hide beats a through & through through the guts any day IMO. If your best accuracy load is somewhat less that max, reduce your max range to 60 or 70 yards.
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paulvallandigham
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You must hve a thumb on yyour scale when you weight .50 cal. round ball. Mine weigh 170 grains, not 180. Half of the 170 is 85 grains, right in the ball park of the figures I suggested earlier. Again, the only sure way to know what you are getting is to shoot RB over a chronograph. Then either move the chronograph down range, and take readings, or consult existing tables in reloading and cast bullet manuals.
squirejohn
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Depends on what size ball is used in .50c. Theoretical wts. for 490= 177g, 495=182.5g, and 500= 188g.
Toomuch_36
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Walks with fire said:
I must agree with Ridge, 70 gr. of 3F is my 50 cal. load also.
Remember that although the breach may take the pressures of the max loadings you will seldom get optimum performance from them.
A good 50 cal. load for hunting will usually be about 80 - 90 gr. of 2F or 70 - 80 gr. of 3F. Anything more than this will not be burnt by till the end of the barrel and will be just dumped out on the ground, and have no effect on the ball what-so-ever. The increase in breach pressure and recoil is because with the extra powder you have all that extra dead weight/mass to get moving.
By the way I also sell powder , so if those max charges are your prefference go right ahead and use them, I can use the extra money.
Toomuch
.............
Shoot Flint
Walks-with-fire, in the interest of not wanting incorrect information to be left standing for you since you asked honest questions, you should know that all of the various incremental powder charges mentioned in this thread thus far result in different velocities, so no powder is being left unburned, wasted, etc...Walks with fire said:
:thumbsup:
TooMuch, I've seen those numbers thrown about "too much". While 70-80 grains of 3f may indeed be a good .50 caliber load, you are totally mistaken in saying a .50 caliber can't burn more powder. The current Lyman BP Handbook lists loads from a .50 caliber 32" barrel as follows.
80 gr. 3f, MV 1739 fps, ME 1189 ft.lb.
120 gr. 3f, MV 2045 fps, ME 1644 ft.lb.
They list round ball loads with Goex 2f & 3f.Clear Shot 2f & 3f, Elephant 2f & 3f, Pyrodex RS, Select and P, all from 40 to 120 grains and all show increases in velocity from 110 to 120. The old first edition handbook went on up to 160 grains of Gearhart-Owen 3f and velocity was still climbing at that point.
In the example of 80 to 120 grains Goex 3f the 50% increase in powder produced a 38% gain in energy, not at all bad efficiency. I have often shot 140 grains of 3f in a .54 caliber rifle with fine accuracy and recoil was not as bad as 100 grains under a 370 grain conical.
I AM NOT RECOMENDING THAT ONE EVER EXCEED THE MAKERS RECOMENDED MAXIMUM!! I am saying that a .50 caliber can "efficiently" burn over 120 grains of 3f, a .54 can use well over 140 grains and a .58 can benefit from far more powder than I ever intend to fire!
And I'd rather hunt with a 60 grain load that keeps them all in the bull than with 160 grains scattered all over the range. :grin:
80 gr. 3f, MV 1739 fps, ME 1189 ft.lb.
120 gr. 3f, MV 2045 fps, ME 1644 ft.lb.
They list round ball loads with Goex 2f & 3f.Clear Shot 2f & 3f, Elephant 2f & 3f, Pyrodex RS, Select and P, all from 40 to 120 grains and all show increases in velocity from 110 to 120. The old first edition handbook went on up to 160 grains of Gearhart-Owen 3f and velocity was still climbing at that point.
In the example of 80 to 120 grains Goex 3f the 50% increase in powder produced a 38% gain in energy, not at all bad efficiency. I have often shot 140 grains of 3f in a .54 caliber rifle with fine accuracy and recoil was not as bad as 100 grains under a 370 grain conical.
I AM NOT RECOMENDING THAT ONE EVER EXCEED THE MAKERS RECOMENDED MAXIMUM!! I am saying that a .50 caliber can "efficiently" burn over 120 grains of 3f, a .54 can use well over 140 grains and a .58 can benefit from far more powder than I ever intend to fire!
And I'd rather hunt with a 60 grain load that keeps them all in the bull than with 160 grains scattered all over the range. :grin:
I remember a quote once given as "... a hit from a .22 is better than a miss from a .44." The subject wasn't about hunting but if you're counting on power over placement then you best use a .75 loaded to the max. If you can hit where you're aiming and know where to aim, then 60-70 grains of 3f should be fine.
playfarmers
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I have been using 80g of 2f in my .50 cal for years, and have taken deer out to 100 yards. I shot one at just over the 100 yards and got a complete pass through the chest cavity.
Musketman said:
Half the ball weight is well documented from as early as the 1750's on up into the industrial revaluation. It does not say anything about
calibers. Only records of store purchases, 1lb of lead, 2 lbs of powder. This is repeated 100's of times. So it is pretty clear that lead and powder
where being used at this ratio.
I probably wouldn't shoot that charge in the 75 cal. However I built a 75 cal rifle for a fellow and I sighted
it in with 200 gr of 2f and that was no picnic.
Let's see now if they were buying 1 lb. lead and 2 lbs. powder that means they were using twice the powder instead of half. Musketman when you shoot that 1090 grs. with your 545 gr. ball be sure to get a picture.
A good rule of thumb for hunting is to shoot the heaviest load you and your rifle can shoot accurately.
A good rule of thumb for hunting is to shoot the heaviest load you and your rifle can shoot accurately.
But powder spoils and lead dosen't. Dampness, falling in a creek with the carry horn, etc. I also spill 10% when loading, I betcha. Maybe they packed with a loss factor for spoilage and spillage factored in. I would.
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