Escopetas again

[BillinOregon]

Yes, geography plays a role in my interest in escopetas as well, living as I do in West Central Texas and hoping to move back to New Mexico soon.

 

[rickystl]

I still have more to do on the stock but I was building this for a friend (RIP) and while not a miquelet it is Spanish 1740's.

View attachment 277385
One of the more miserable locks to build. If you notice with the chiseled lock plate there are no screws protruding thru, they are all bottom tapped into the lockplate! The sear engages thru the Plate via 2 pins attached with pins.
View attachment 277384

Swab: That gun is going to turn out really cool when it's done. What an interesting lock type. Shows the French style outward appearance, but still retaining a form of horizontal sear, like their miquelets.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

He needs to make large miquelet lock castings for muskets, maybe a smaller pistol size if it pans out. We need to raise a statue of Rick in old St Charles if he will loan a lock for a pattern!

LOL!! Sam: You over-rate me. LOL !!! I would be glad to loan out any of my locks for castings. In this case, it's finding the right lock.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Rick, the lock on your TRS gun looks perfect -- as does the rest of the piece!

Bill: It's unfortunate we can't use one of the FINISHED TRS locks for a pattern. Their locks are generally plain (with some exceptions) with no engraving or decoration. That makes for what we might call a good, general "builders" lock.
Would the purpose of this whole exercise be to get an additional "source" for miquelet locks ? Due to the potential long delivery from TRS ?

Most of my originals are engraved or otherwise decorated. But I'll post a couple here and see what you think. Seems it would be easier to just order a kit from TRS and have someone knowledgeable assemble it.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Rickystl and billinOregon, my bank account now hates you both. Thanks to this thread, I now really want an escopeta. It also looks like the most appropriate gun for colonial California, so another layer of want.

And it only gets worse as time goes on. It's like a disease.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

We are tired of the very long wait times from TRS, and the uncertainty of delivery. I once got my parts order in 1 week, another order 2 years later. And I’m still waiting on an order from 4 years ago! Any other supplier is a good thing.

 

[TobJohn]

We are tired of the very long wait times from TRS, and the uncertainty of delivery. I once got my parts order in 1 week, another order 2 years later. And I’m still waiting on an order from 4 years ago! Any other supplier is a good thing.

Real talk. My hackenbusche was the best case scenario and it still took them almost a month to send it out the door. With their spotty quality control, it’s too much of a gamble.

If pedersoli manages to make their bakers with pre COVID quality control, there is going to be one less reason to buy from TRS.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

How about this Miquelet lock?

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...utm_campaign=keywordalerts&utm_content=260937

 

[rickystl]

We are tired of the very long wait times from TRS, and the uncertainty of delivery. I once got my parts order in 1 week, another order 2 years later. And I’m still waiting on an order from 4 years ago! Any other supplier is a good thing.

Hi Sam

OK. I get it. TRS's likely problem is that they offer too many different lock types. From a customer's viewpoint, that's good. But from a manufacturing/commercial perspective they could not financially afford to keep every part in stock all the time.
In the case of Spanish style guns there is another issue besides the miquelet locks. The Spanish style hardware. It seems that all the hardware in the current market is of British or French origin. Because that's the most popular. So with the brass or iron hardware, your stuck with TRS again. Unless it's custom hand-made.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

I'm assuming that making castings using a finished TRS lock could make for potential liability issues ? As well as any hardware ?
Too bad. That would resolve the issue. Does TRS have copyrights on their replica locks ? Just asking. Thus the need for an original to pattern.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

I'm assuming that making castings using a finished TRS lock could make for potential liability issues ? As well as any hardware ?
Too bad. That would resolve the issue. Does TRS have copyrights on their replica locks ? Just asking. Thus the need for an original to pattern.

Rick

I looked into this a couple of months ago and the answer I got was that legally it is probably fine, but morally it is not.

 

[rickystl]

I looked into this a couple of months ago and the answer I got was that legally it is probably fine, but morally it is not.

Well, that's what I thought too. But agree with the moral aspect.

Rick

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Or these:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...prod&queryID=5077b15cde9c516e9b7bd74677e32520

 

[rickystl]

Ok. I believe this might be the best lock to copy. Here is the original description from Czerny's:

"The lockplate engraved along the edges with floral decoration, a gold-inlaid crowned maker's mark "ANTONIO NAVARRO", and marked "EN MADRID" under the **** spring. The **** moderately decorated, the rear of the frizzen with repeated signature and marked "1779". A well maintained lock with intact mechanics. Length of lock plate 12.2 cm. Provenance: Christie's London, The W. Keith Neal Collection."

The lock is a full medium size. Just right for an escopeta or fowler. It's dated in the right period. It also was built with no fence between the frizzen/pan screw and the **** - which would allow easier access to both the main and frizzen springs. The lock shows no signs of ever having been used. The lock operates as smooth as silk. But I never tried sparking since the frizzen face appears untouched.

Here is some more info. on the maker:

"The maker: Antonio Navarro (Nabarro in the spelling of the era) flourished in the 1790s and started out as a student of court gunsmith Miguel de Zegarra. On barrels, his countermark is a sailing ship, below the punzón seen on the plate of your lock

The lock: very good design and craftsmanship, worthy of Navarro's status on the short list of esteemed Madrid gunsmiths compiled by Isidro Soler, who along with Nicolás Bis who had quasi-legendary status in the trade."

Here are a bunch of pics. What do you all think ?

Rick

 

[rickystl]

MORE PICS....

 

[rickystl]

STILL MORE....

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Rickystl: Beautiful and as stated, could be unused. Great model to copy.

 

[Sam squanch]

Making a functional miquelet that’s styled right from scratch and looks correct is not child’s play. But with some pictures, I could make a reasonable copy of a triggerguard, buttplate, side plate, bands, and other stock furniture. There is obviously an interest in these locks. And I believe they have many benefits over the “ French” flintlock, mainly you don’t have to remove so much wood to inlet one, resulting in a much stronger stock in that area.

 

[BillinOregon]

¡Qué lindo! I can't help thinking Señor Neal would be most pleased.

 

[trettie]

Just did a search and read some old threads on this topic that seems to bob slowly to the surface here from time to time. Why these firearms -- which played such an important role in the Central and North American historical experience -- continue to be virtually ignored simply baffles me.

Old Guard Manufacturing posted some new pictures to their FB page today.