I was wondering… Has anyone experienced the lack of penetration with rb? I took a deer today at 106 yds with a 50 cal with 80 grains of goex ffg pushing a patched rb. The ball slipped right through the rib cage smashing the heart before stopping against the back wall of the ribs. Granite, it was a bit far of a shot with traditional iron sights, for me at least, but I felt comfortable enough to take it so I did. It’s not just farther shots though. Most deer I shoot are less than 30 yards and I’ve yet to see one of my rb’s exit the animal. Anyone experiencing the same? I know a rb doesn’t weigh much.
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Exit wound on deer.
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They usually stretch the skin on the offside considerably, then spring back. I use wheel weight balls, and they often would fully penetrate.
No matter how fast you drive a round ball at the muzzle it goes subsonic by a hundred yards. The faster you drive it the worse it looses velocity.
That said we know of kills at one hundred and fifty or two hundred yards with ball.
Exit wounds don’t hurt deer. It’s the damage tween the ribs that counts.
My rule, and I ain’t preaching to any one who does it different, is ml is archery on steroids. Get close.
It’s not the frontier of 1840. You don’t go home to an empty belly or bowl of grits if you don’t get your kill. Get close,get kills,enjoy your venison
That said we know of kills at one hundred and fifty or two hundred yards with ball.
Exit wounds don’t hurt deer. It’s the damage tween the ribs that counts.
My rule, and I ain’t preaching to any one who does it different, is ml is archery on steroids. Get close.
It’s not the frontier of 1840. You don’t go home to an empty belly or bowl of grits if you don’t get your kill. Get close,get kills,enjoy your venison
First of all, congrats on your harvest! Secondly, look at it this way, at least you recovered your round ball and can melt it and start over…
Our forefathers probably would have considered that a “win-win.”
Our forefathers probably would have considered that a “win-win.”
Just as an aside old timers did try to load to leave ball in deer to recover. Lead was ten cents a pound in Saint Louis a dollar a pound in the mountains
If you made fifty dollars a month in Saint Louis you were pretty high on the hog
If you made fifty dollars a month in Saint Louis you were pretty high on the hog
It might not be 1840, but we’re starven pilgrims here in Georgia
BEP
40 Cal.
Any projectile that stays in the deer is expending all of its energy in that deer's body, which is a good thing. A very good thing. When there's an exit wound some of that energy is wasted on whatever's beyond the deer. Like, say, a tree or a hill but not the deer. Sounds like you're doing good.
Um no....,
You get nothing special for damage when that round ball stops in the deer compared to when the roundball goes through the deer. IF we are using the same size ball, and they hit in identical places on identical deer, mine used as much energy as did yours, then continued beyond, expending even more energy and forced an exit. The exiting round ball exceeds the energy shed within the animal compared to that which remains.
There are a lot of variables at effect terminal ballistics.
How much deformation happened? Was it a true 90 degree hit, or did it go into the animal at an angle? How good was the range to the animal measured? How good was the powder measured, and what granulation? What was the pressure when seated, and did the patch give a good seal? etc etc
I've only had one shot not go through the animal when shooting broadside, and that includes my longest shot ever, 110 yards, using a .530 round ball and 70 grains of 3Fg. It was a damaged load and sounded much softer when it went bang at a deer at 30 yards. I found the ball under the offside hide when I collected the deer.
One good thing for a through and through shot..., twice as many holes for blood to provide a trail if needed. The guys that should the shoulder shots don't normally get exits, and they tell me "who's tracking the deer?"
LD
CapPopper
40 Cal.
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Not unusual to recover bullets from modern cartridge guns under the hide on the offside. Takes a lot more than you would think to get the projectile through the very stretchy skin on the offside. The only reason it's non issue on the impact side is the animal is behind it stopping it from giving. Probably a good thing cause if it stretched like it did on the back we would probably need a little more gun for some things. As long as it's reaching the ide you've got all the penetration you would ever need.
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As the old owner of a large modern bullet company used to say when fielding complaints " where exactly in the deer's death did my bullet fail you" lol.
Something to consider.
Something to consider.
I’ve shot many deer with patched round ball,some 50 cal. Some 40 cal. But most with a 54 caliber. Most of them, regardless of caliber, I’ve recovered in the animal. The deformation of the ball, as it enters the animal is mostly responsible for the lack of pass through.Personally, for blood trailing, I like a complete pass through. Luckily for me, none my muzzleoading deer run too far..
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My .54 leaves an exit hole even in moose. Heavier ball than the 50 cal. My 40 sometimes exits but only on a pure side lung shots.
There is another way to think about it. While x amount of energy moves ball wether it exited or not. However if you ‘load for bear’ any extra energy the ball has after it exited didn’t do anything to kill the deer, while a ball that stops has used enough energy to kill with out wasting any. All rather Zen
Howsomever a ball that has the energy to exit will do a little more shock to surrounding tissue as it moves through. And Lungs, heart, blood vessels don’t like to do their job when slapped too hard.
When ever we talk about wound and deer and energy it becomes very messy. A heavy weight boxer will deliver a punch on a par with a .54 ball. While I or Bambi might survive a punch in the chest from Mike Tyson I’m unlikely to survive one from Ike Hines
Exit hole are good for me. They leave a better blood trail than just an entrance hole. Where I hunt in NH an exit wound blood trail is easier to follow. Even for the 20-30 yards a great shot dear may go in the thickets and hemlocks.
This has been argued over camp fires and bar stools for as long folks have been shooting things at animals. It will be something to argue about till the end days.
Stykbow
50 Cal.
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I didn’t get an exit on the doe I shot yesterday. Slightly quartering to me and moving at a fast trot. I shot her at 8 steps thru her near shoulder. Broke that shoulder, blew the top off her heart, and lodged under the skin on the far side. I have no doubt it would have punched on thru if it had been a fully broadside shot. Oh yeah, .490 ball over 80 grains of pyrodex. She dropped in sight with lots of damage having been done, so I feel like the ball did it’s job just fine.
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I thought I'd crunch the numbers.
If you have your Bibles (Lyman Handbook) you will see a 28" barrel 50 cal using 80grs fffg has around 1692 fps and 1143 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.
If you used ffg you'd have less velocity and energy to start with.
At 100 yards the same load has around 995 fps and 400 ft lbs, about 60% loss of energy. Nothing I'd want to catch, but the soft lead will instantly deform and shed more energy once inside the critter.
Lead isn't as scarce as it was BITD, so there's no reason in my mind to NOT want a complete pass thru, and it makes for easier tracking. Here in the cross timbers area, you can't see more than 20 yards in the bush, so the more blood, the merrier.
If your gonna shoot regularly at that range, (BTW, congrats on a great shot), you might wanna up your powder charge, switch to wheel weight round balls, try a conical, or a combination of those.
I think today the only reason for wanting a recovered prb is bragging rights.
I've never recovered a muzzleloading bullet.
If you have your Bibles (Lyman Handbook) you will see a 28" barrel 50 cal using 80grs fffg has around 1692 fps and 1143 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.
If you used ffg you'd have less velocity and energy to start with.
At 100 yards the same load has around 995 fps and 400 ft lbs, about 60% loss of energy. Nothing I'd want to catch, but the soft lead will instantly deform and shed more energy once inside the critter.
Lead isn't as scarce as it was BITD, so there's no reason in my mind to NOT want a complete pass thru, and it makes for easier tracking. Here in the cross timbers area, you can't see more than 20 yards in the bush, so the more blood, the merrier.
If your gonna shoot regularly at that range, (BTW, congrats on a great shot), you might wanna up your powder charge, switch to wheel weight round balls, try a conical, or a combination of those.
I think today the only reason for wanting a recovered prb is bragging rights.
I've never recovered a muzzleloading bullet.
It’s funny too. Even though it had no exit wound, it had no problem dropping the animal. Every deer is different I guess. It dropped right where it stood; back legs folded and down it went. It went down so fast that I thought I might have nicked the spine but it didn’t. I’ve shot deer through the heart at 20 yards and have it run 50 yards. This one over 100 and like a sack of potatoes.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Sounds like you need a .58, or a .62.... 
I really do want a larger rifle. I’ve got a 16 gauge smoothie I’ve been taking with me, but every deer I had considered taking was out of range. I only have so much time in the woods per week, so I took my rifle this time. It’s a 50Sounds like you need a .58, or a .62....
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