Extremely frustrated

[rp77469]

I have a couple GPR, one factory, one kit, both bought used, both 1-66. The kit gun came with only half the muzzle crowned. I should have caught it before I bought it. We recrowned it on a lathe and got the group down to 2"- at 50. These are .54 caliber with .530 ball and 0.13 compressed ticking, bear grease lube and 90 gr Goex 2F. HTH.

 

[loflyr55]

I had one solution that worked a couple times. I filled the barrel with hopes no. 9 and let it sit for 24 hours. Then I gave it a good cleaning and went back to my old loads that worked. The groups reduced significantly and my confidence was restored. When cleaning, use hot water until you can’t hold the barrel without a glove.

 

[Lynnhawk]

I've been shooting muzzle loaders off and on since 1977. In the last 2 years I've become more serious about it and have been diligent in writing down what works in each gun. Percussion and flintlock. I've spent countless hours shooting each gun from .32 to .54. Kibler SMR and Lyman GPR's. I am to the point of selling almost everything due to the inconsistencies I get from each of these guns. The past 2 days I've worked with my Kibler .40 and my GPR in .50, refering back to my notes and targets from earlier in the year when I found loads that worked really well. Now when I try the same combinations the guns aren't even close to the sights and not only do I not have target accuracy, I don't even have hunting accuracy at 50 yards off the bench.

I was wanting to take one of these guns deer hunting next week but I can't rely on either. It's not my eyes because I can take my cartridge guns and shoot under an inch with some of them at 50 and 100 yards.

Rant over.

I have also been shooting mz for a long time…I see little to no change in my Smokeless rifles from year to year in my Smokeless powders…I have cans of Smokless for years and no change in sighting in ..I basically check my eyes more than my rifle However in pyrodex the change from one year to the next can really have a diverse change…I also agree with the BP substitutes that they may take on some moisture and change the point of impact..fresh powder may help you with the problem you are having

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

+1 to the comment for possible nipple replacement.

 

[Rodd Boyer]

I've had rear sights get loose... with less than stellar results! A quick rap with a punch and ball peen hammer and everything went back to being good. Never hurts to grab onto them and see if you can wiggle them by hand...

 

[towgunner11h]

My eyesight is my biggest impediment.

 

[Tom Compton]

Same gun, ball, patch, lube and powder charge. Only variable left is the shooter.

 

[coupe]

You didn't say if it was horizontal, vertical, or all over the map. Flyers can be weight diff in the projectile, vertical mostly is patch lube and or load. Most times horizontal is the shooter. what sights do you have, maybe it's time for a peep sight. I mention lube cause a change in slickness can change velocity which can move p.o.i.
coupe

 

[flashpoint]

Ah don't know nothin, but maybe something, somewhere has gotten loose?

 

[dehart.stephen]

As for percussion nipples burning out, it surprises me that round ball loads would do that even after hundreds of rounds. I shot out steel and beryllium alloy nipples in a few hundred rounds wirh slugs about 3 calibers long and loaded around 1250 fps. The burnout wasn't noticed until it was resetting my hammer to half-cocked, so the flash holes had been enlarging for a while. A platinum-lined nipple (80 to 100 bucks- ouch!) has cured that and actually worked out cheaper than the several exotic alloy ones I would have gone through by now. Such is the story with a slug shooter. Wonder if your nipples that burned out had some alloy or hardenes/heat treat defect? Wonder if someone could line one with a dab of platinum to convert it. If you resort to platinum, the Long Range Muzzle Loader folks should know a source. Got mine from an eminent LRML guy in Ohio, who was sadly lost to us years ago.

 

[hanshi]

I can't think of any particulars that haven't already been mentioned. So just my general thoughts on it. If you are using the same, exact supplies as before, benching the rifles precisely the same way, aiming/shooting and using the trigger the same way then it absolutely has to be something to do with the gun itself or your shooting has changed.

Everything, sights, screws, stock warped or not warped and bore condition are possibilities. Screws should be snug, sights should be solidly in place and stock should not be warped enough for the pins to bind in the barrel underlugs. I've found that weighing and sorting ball is a waste of time for the hunter and casual shooter. I've fired super tight or one hole groups at 50 with random ball I've cast. I use tight loads that can still be seated with the wood ramrod. When my shooting sucks I know it's me with my bad eyes and old age. As Sherlock Holmes said, not verbatim, when all else has been has been proven wrong, the answer is that what remains however improbable it may seem must be the truth.

 

[jimdvan]

Well, I put my peep sights back on the gun and will try again tomorrow with some different patch material and see if I can sort this out.

 

[M. De Land]

I've been shooting muzzle loaders off and on since 1977. In the last 2 years I've become more serious about it and have been diligent in writing down what works in each gun. Percussion and flintlock. I've spent countless hours shooting each gun from .32 to .54. Kibler SMR and Lyman GPR's. I am to the point of selling almost everything due to the inconsistencies I get from each of these guns. The past 2 days I've worked with my Kibler .40 and my GPR in .50, refering back to my notes and targets from earlier in the year when I found loads that worked really well. Now when I try the same combinations the guns aren't even close to the sights and not only do I not have target accuracy, I don't even have hunting accuracy at 50 yards off the bench.

I was wanting to take one of these guns deer hunting next week but I can't rely on either. It's not my eyes because I can take my cartridge guns and shoot under an inch with some of them at 50 and 100 yards.

Rant over.

I experienced this once with my underhammer cap gun match rifle and it was the nipple orifice change from erosion. A new nipple brought it back to its normal accuracy level. The nipple erosion was the only change in the load and shooting technique regimen.

 

[dave951]

As for percussion nipples burning out, it surprises me that round ball loads would do that even after hundreds of rounds.

Some guns burn them out within 10 shots. The factory nipple in Whitworth repops come to mind. I've seen it personally and it is a thing. Alloy nipple is the way to go if you're serious about accuracy.

 

[jimdvan]

I'll try some different nipples while I'm shooting.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I'm using real black powder, .010" dry patches that I lube with water/Ballistol/soap mix. 2F Goex or 2F Schutzen, anywhere from 40 gr. to 60 gr. for the .50 and 35-50 grains of 3F Schutzen for the .40. In May these combos were working great. That's why I wrote everything down. All the powders are from the same cans, same caps; everything is the same.

You have stated the patch size. What about the ball size. Typically my ball is .10 less than bore size and I use a .15 or .20 sized patch for a tight fit. What is the patch material and what material?

 

[Red Owl]

You said ALL your muzzle loading guns are doing the same thing? I would look to something other than the guns. That is, a loose nipple would effect only one gun not all of them. Why not just buy some new powder?

 

[azmntman]

Now that I've slept on it and am not so angry I'll clean the bore very well and start again with a different patch material for the .50 GPR.

I reviewed the target on my .40 Kibler and with 35 gr. of 3F Schuetzen I put 3 shots into one hole, benched at 50 yards so I think that one is good to go. Since I want to shoot a deer with it I'll start increasing the powder charge and see what I get.

Thanks for all the input. I'll check out some of the suggestions offered.

So the .40 was good to go then sucked now its good to go and nothing changed?

was gonna wait and say this at end of the threads but......I had a rifle (CVA) once that I shot for years and it was a tack driver, liked most loads equally (a rare jewel). Then it didn't. It mattered not what I did to it or feed it or cleaned it with or EVEN WHAT KINDA CHEW I HAD IN MY MOUTH?). Years and years this went on. Like you grab my .22 or deer rifle cf and watch out, hard to beat me.

Then one day it came back. I did nothing, using same old stuff. Shots like it used to after years of groups? No explanation and like you, nope wasn't me. Same nipple too.

Dont give up on it. Walk away from it for a bit (or for e a few years). btw I could still shoot my other BP rifles fine???

 

[Sun City]

Get away from your 'sissy loads' and PUT SOME POWDER down the barrel; 100 grains 2F and you're gonna see that the rifles shoot! 40 to 60 grains????.....no wonder!!

 

[jimdvan]

I shot it today and discovered a few things:
1. The gun groups better as the barrel heats up.
2. Once I got up to 65 and 70 grains it grouped a little better.
3. It occurred to me that in May I was shooting the gun with front and rear peep sights. I did again today to get a baseline. When I switched to open sights my groups were 2-3 times larger. Getting old sucks.
4. I had to stop shooting for about 40 minutes. The barrel had time to cool and it took about 7 shots to get it to group again.
I was using 2f Goex, a .012"-.015" patch, (depending on how hard its compressed), and a mix of Ballistol, water, and Lestoil, .495" cast balls.

It will shoot but my eyes seem to be the biggest problem.