Fairness to game

[oomcurt]

I've been thinking on this for some time now. Not too sure "fairness" is the correct term. If one wanted to be fair....I dunno...drop down out of a tree and wrestle the deer to the ground? Now while I don't condone taking wild shots that may only injure a deer and take a long long time for it to die.... I think that at times this idea of "owing the game a quick death is a bit overdone. There have been times when a deer I shot was dead when I got to it...then there are times it wasn't...did it bother me. Not really, nor do i think it bothered folks back in the 1800's. To be honest, today's society is a bit over the top as far as being anthropomorphic in those things. A animal is a animal...something in the food chain, nothing more..nothing less.

 

[spitfire]

And most Aboriginal natives would have a different view point.Animism could be considered a "primitive" pre-modern form of anthropomorphism.They also made a more thorough use of the "Harvest" :hmm:

 

[RC]

My opinion, yer right, "fairness" is not the correct term... I think RESPECT is the right term, anything that can get a person that devoted,that amazed,that happy,that disgusted,that confused deserves total respect,and a quick clean kill and a 100% full scale attempt to track and retrieve a wounded animal..that may be just me,but i've seen animals do things that just awe me,and can't imagine letting one suffer if there's anything i could do to stop[url] it.thinkin[/url] that may be some of the difference between hunters and a sportsman! RC

 

[vinnynj]

rc what is the differance just curious i ame a meat hunter dont care about horns and i want a quick kill you cant eat a blood trail

 

[Stumpkiller]

For me it's as simple as following The Golden Rule. "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you." A quick kill is the last respect you can show an animal that is dying by your efforts. "Fair chase" refers to the hunt. The killing itself relies on you using your chosen tool to its best efficiency.

 

[RC]

Vin, if i understand what your askin, think it's what is the diff between being a sportsman and a hunter,guess,easiest way to try to explain,4 guys dressed to hunt driving down a road,see a deer in a field,get out shoot from the road or near,deer jumps, runs off,guy says "I missed" and drives off,I'm hopin a sportsman,while still being a hunter,wouldn't be shootin from the road and most importantly would check his shot to make sure he missed..guess mostly it's anyone can get a license,a gun,and go out hunting,guess that makes all of us hunters,the ones that check their shots,or don't take the shot because they have doubts about a killing shot,and just enjoy the woods,animals,company of others and respect the animals,and the outdoors are more than just a hunter, if you are a meat hunter and go for a quick clean kill and follow a blood trail giving 100% to try an find the animal,i'd say that makes you a sportsman too..sorry kinda hard to explain,guess it'd been better to say they're are hunters and sportsman and then theres people in the woods with guns lookin to kill something..best i can explain it,but again that's just my opinion,don't mean to offend anyone,well maybe the one who left that beautiful 9 pt. 10 yds. off the field cause the 150 yd. walk from the road musta been not worth the effort to see he didn't miss...RC

 

[RC]

Stumpkiller, wish i'd said it like that.simple and too the point.sorry i get longwinded, just pretty passionate about it..RC

 

[vinnynj]

rc i was just askin not ofended and the reason is last week i was huntin birds at ower club with mike the wop( im alowed to say that im a wop)he told me that he must have shot 150 phesents this year and my reply was how do you cook them anser i dont eat them im a sportsman and i dont eat game bird rabbit or deer that is about the most assanine thing i ever heard and hope i never become one of the gyes who hunts on a full stomach or only shoots the week befour buck to se if the gun is on i shoot all year to make shure im on would i pass on shots yes got to know your own limetations the thought of loosing a deer makes me sick call me what you want i dont want to track em i want to eat them happly perched on top of the food chain we are the ultimate preditor and owe it to ower selves to make clean kills it seperates us from the animals who eat each outher while still alive

 

[Hoyt]

I don't like all the "ethical" talk when it involves hunting. "Is this type hunting ethical.. is that type"..so on. It's hard for me to equate the word ethical with shooting holes in an animal.
I believe in "doing the right thing." About the only thing I have a little problem with "doing the right thing" is when it comes to shot angles. In the old days I would take any shot I could get and hope for the best. Now days, I may pass one up every now and then. You don't hear much about the "Texas heart shot" anymore. But this can be and is taken to the extreme by some of todays hunters in my opinion. I see people post where they will not take a walking shot with bow..a running shot with gun..has to be a perfect broadside or quartering away angle. I would never get a shot if I went by all that.

 

[RC]

my idea of a good shot,is one I know I can make that will be a lethal shot,(know I can make in my mind,heart,based on what I know my capabilities are) don't like wounded animals,not crazy bout trackin my wounded deer,I always take any blood trail if there ain't no one followin it)gees if I waited for the "perfect shot" I'd still be waitin,thinkin I only had a couple of those,screwed one up too.talk about disbelief! guess I've just seen too much waste and people just not caring..really bugs me now. wounded deer, left deer,outlaws, litter,destruction of property,theivery,just plain not caring,dam,their my animals too,and this is my country too,let's take care of it.. (sure get me started!!!!) RC

 

[roundball]

"...If one wanted to be fair....I dunno...drop down out of a tree and wrestle the deer to the ground?..."

Being fair would be letting the deer have rifles!
:rotf:


I don't get spititually wrapped up thinking about killing a deer or saying prayers over one when I've shot it, but I do respect that I'm taking a life and don't believe any animal should suffer needlessly.

I take preparation, practice, and shot placement seriously, and only drop a hammer on a deer when I know I'm going to kill it...literally try to get a shot that will either drop it where it stands or at least within sight of me...I never take shots where "I hope I get it".

As I've gotten older I can look back and see the trend where one characteristic has produced more terminal one shot stops for me than anything else that is ballistics related: Patience

 

[Runner]

How do you even answer someone that says we over do the need for quick humane kills? I used to carry a bundle of sage and say prayers of thanks over the animal. If I don't have a good shot, well then I saw a deer that day. That is still a good day hunting.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would like to see hunters limit their shots to those which will hit the heart/lung area, or the neck or head for a killing shot. But, life does not work that way. I try to break a foreleg with my shot as well as hit the lungs, but it takes patience, and a willingness to pass on other shots. Patience has taught me to be more quiet in the woods, to move slower, and with soft feet.

If the only deer you see are running, you are moving too fast, not paying attention to the wind, or to your feet.

I would like to see hunters learn how to track the animals they shoot, and not just blood trails. With a minimum of instruction, and some practice there is almost no reason for a hunter to lose a deer he has shot, or fail to recover it.

I was tracking a deer for a friend when a storm front came through, and blew all the leaves in the forest into the next ravine, covering up our tracks, and what little blood we had to follow. I lost that deer, even though two of us spend 2 hours, running concentric rings and arcs looking for the tracks, until way after dark. I found the deer's carcass in the next ravine a month later when I returned for the second half of the season here in Illinois. The shot had hit the deer in the jaw bone, and severed the jaw, making it inpossible for the buck to eat or drink. Coyotes were working on what was left. I took the antlers. I will always feel bad about losing that buck's tracks, but it could not be helped. We had 40 mph winds blow through and moved just about everything. We were in old growth forest when we lost his tracks, with a thick bed of leaves that he stepped on. We did track the deer about 300 yds from where he was first hit, which was 50 yds further than the shooter could follow it looking just at blood.

Animals go into shock, when hit, and don't feel any more pain than humans often do for the same reason. Respect them enough to pick your shots, and always follow up on a shot you think missed.

My brother missed a deer at very short range and didn't believe it was possible until I showed him the half moon arc that his slug put through a branch of a tree limb he didn't see from where he shot. I tracked the deer for more than 200 yds, both to show him how it is done, and also to show him how to verify that the slug did not hit the deer. No blood, no foot dragging, no stumbling, or any other change in body movement to indicate an injured deer was seen. Less than 50 yds from where he was shot at, this little buck returned to a steady walking gait, and walked to a main trail stopping once in awhile to nibble at grasses growing along the trail. When the buck's tracks mingled with other tracks made that morning, I stopped and asked my brother if he still had any doubts that he missed.

I was prepared to continue tracking, but it would be much harder, and almost impossible for him to see how I could follow our buck's tracks through that mess of tracks, even if I pointed the tracks out to him. He just wasn't ready for that level of training, yet. He was satisfied so we stopped tracking that deer. I had been satisfied that he missed the buck when I examined the first tracks of the buck where he was standing when my brother fired his shot, and before I found that branch he hit. But, then, I have been tracking for more than 50 years.

 

[oomcurt]

Interesting comments. If you noticed, in my original post I stated that I did not condone wild shots that might only wound the deer and give it a long and miserable death. Doing one's best to track down a wounded animal is part of being a hunter IMO. Same as obeying the game laws. What I was really getting at...the "owing" part.. Any hunter that is conscientious will ceertainly do thier best towards making a clean kill. For several reasons...one is an excited animal running or trying to run for its life is going to taste lousy. Adrenalin is not the best flavoring in meat. Then we have the possibility of losing the deer due to a rapid change in the weather conditions...and so forth. All of this is part of what must be considered when hunting. The "owing" part...I dunno...that sounds too much like the deer or whatever is doing me a favor by letting me kill it....That is what I meant by the anthropomorphic part. Incidentally...and yes, everyone is different and entitled to thier beliefs...mine is basically we are animals also..classified as mammals. I also understand the native american part about animisim...that is something I believe in also...however animisim is the belief that all things have a spirit. That spirit is what is so to speak prayed to or givin thanks to. All things..meaning trees, rocks..whatever exists in nature. While anamisim could be construed to be anthropomorphic...it isn't. Anthropomorphisim is the idea that the animal is on the same level as a human. It thinks..can understand english, has human feelings and so on.

 

[Runner]

The woods were about 100 yads wide in front of me with a pasture fence running down the edge. As the it got light, the biggest buck I have ever seen stopped highlighted against the lighter open area. I'm talking dream type 200 plus 300 pound buck. As I lifted the gun, he stepped forward where his head was visable and so were his hams. The rest was hidden by a big tree. I thought about it, eased the safty back on, and sat down to try and catch him as he snuck on thru. I never saw him again, and I have never regretted not shooting. To shoot him in the hams would have dropped him for a follow up within a minute or so. I would have the trophy. The shot was wrong for me, so I did not take it. Instead of the trophy I have a little bit of something that is hard to explain. I play by a set of rules out there that don't have to make sense to anyone but me when my head hits the pillow at night. Part of that is making a good shot or not taking one. Doesn't have to fit anyone elses wierd.

 

[Hoyt]

I passed up a shot on a trophy buck this yr. I started not to hunt that morning as it was real windy and raining before daylight. I decided to go in after the rain stopped and look a place over. I was walking down a woods rd. about 7:30am and saw a big deer walk across in front of me about 300yds. down. I sped up my walk fast as I could..was 6wks. after open heart so wasn't very fast..and when I got down to where he crossed he was standing in a fire-break about 150yds. away. He was about half broadside and looking back at me. Even from that distance I could see his antlers were at least 3" past his ears on each side. There just happened to be a big 10" round fencepost right by me and I lay my gun on it for a rest. It must have been almost five minutes I tried to draw a bead on that deer..he even turned and gave me a perfect broadside shot while starting at me trying to figure out what I was. I know I half squeezed the trigger at least twice as I was telling myself all I was going to get was a hope and a prayer, that I wasn't going to be able to get a firm hold on him..to take the shot..but I never could get the hold I wanted and didn't shoot. Why didn't I take the gamble? Because I really thought I'd miss and didn't won't to spook him worse than I did. Plane and simple.

 

[oomcurt]

I don't blame you...I would not have taken that shot either, too far for my capabilities. Not for fear of missing...rather than I could give the deer a nasty wound that would not heal or prevent the deer from eating or running away from a predator. All of this comes under a hunter's responsibility. However, my view that being responsible in that way...is not that I "owe" the deer that. Rather that it could be a senseless way of ending that deer's life as well as a waste.

 

[sdakotadoug]

You stated precisely how I feel, and eloquently. Doug

 

[cayugad]

I hunt with a muzzleloader during all the gun seasons. Some years I score, some years I don't. It really makes little or no difference to me anymore other then less venison in the freezer.

I've hunted with people who have jokingly but literally belittled me if you will, for not taking a shot I felt questionable at best. Once it was a very nice sized buck I let walk. As I tell them, when you hear me shoot, come help drag. They get a big kick out of me and my muzzleloaders during modern gun season.

I just have no desire to wound or fatally wound and then track a animal for two days or until the wolves find it first. If I feel there is anything about the shot that is questionable, I owe it to the animal I am hunting and myself as a sportsman, not to take the shot.

 

[rudy parnell]

Well spoken. :hatsoff: Hunting is a journey and a telling story of the soul!