Ferric nitrate crystals test.

[Philip Chua]

Howdy all!
Haven’t even gotten my workbench built and I’m working on stock stain! I had been reading about making Ferric nitrate (iron nitrate) stain from iron and nitric acid. While I enjoy playing with strong acids as much as the next guy it seemed like a bit of a mess. So I ordered Ferric Nitrate crystals and mixed 20g with 80g everclear (75% ethanol, 25% water). I put a coat on a piece of 2X4 pine and some on a bit of plywood last night then tonight used the heat gun on them and a little danish oil. I think it looks pretty cool. I may do my bench top with it just to do it. Anyway, prob 6mo from ordering my kit as I skill build but this was a fun little side quest.

 

[wiscoaster]

Thanks ... bookmarked for future reference.

 

[waksupi]

I took a chunk of maple, and made various strengths with alcohol. You can get a lot of variation in color.

 

[Philip Chua]

I took a chunk of maple, and made various strengths with alcohol. You can get a lot of variation in color.

I have a Kibler stock second that I’m using to practice carving and I’m gonna do exactly that.

 

[boberator]

I took a chunk of maple, and made various strengths with alcohol. You can get a lot of variation in color.

So do you make a strong concentration and thin it down with more alcohol? If so so you add alcohol with some water or just more alcohol? Knowing Everclear is Ethanol, do you ever use Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) instead to dilute the acidic stain? I have some 99% isopropyl on hand and wonder if anyone tried some of that?

 

[waksupi]

So do you make a strong concentration and thin it down with more alcohol? If so so you add alcohol with some water or just more alcohol? Knowing Everclear is Ethanol, do you ever use Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) instead to dilute the acidic stain? I have some 99% isopropyl on hand and wonder if anyone tried some of that?

I used plain old denatured alcohol.

 

[Philip Chua]

So do you make a strong concentration and thin it down with more alcohol? If so so you add alcohol with some water or just more alcohol? Knowing Everclear is Ethanol, do you ever use Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) instead to dilute the acidic stain? I have some 99% isopropyl on hand and wonder if anyone tried some of that?

The experiment was to make a known concentration with a solution of mainly ethanol (so that it dries fairly quickly) and some water (to raise the grain a little, not a lot.
Ferric nitrate cystals are very soluble in water and alcohols so this could have just as easily been isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol). I would not use denatured alcohol personally because of the additives to make it unpalatable and that there isnt really a standard mix - some are ethanol+isoproanol, some are methanol+ethanol etc. Some have napthalene and hexanes in them etc. For my purposes I wanted to keep the solution as standardized as possible.
I did a 4:1 solvent to solute ration with 75% alcohol/25% water because its easy to get and relatively inexpensive (as everclear grain alcohol).
I plan to try a few different concentrations on my curly maple sample after I'm done carving, inlaying, and whatever else I can work on. 4:1 is what I had seen in a few places. Looks a little dark to me so I may start with a 5:1 or 6:1 on the maple and see how it looks.
The 100g bottle of ferric nitrate was about $35 shipped and at 4:1 would make a half liter of solution, more if I go to a lower ratio. Everclear was $30 for 1750ml so around $0.02 per ml (so my test batch was about $7 ferric nitrate + $1.60 alcohol/water for 100cc (a little over 3oz) of stain).

On acidity - for certain is pH is low because of the reaction of ferric nitrate + water. what that pH is and how important it would be to comensate for it I don't know but that would make an interesting side quest - to use maybe a small amount of something like sodium carbonate to bring the pH closer to 7. Pretty sure I can get that chemistry sorted out at least on paper given that we know the amount of water in the solution.

Long answer to a simple question but I enjoy the science of the whole thing.

Doc van Phil

 

[Philip Chua]

The experiment was to make a known concentration with a solution of mainly ethanol (so that it dries fairly quickly) and some water (to raise the grain a little, not a lot.
Ferric nitrate cystals are very soluble in water and alcohols so this could have just as easily been isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol). I would not use denatured alcohol personally because of the additives to make it unpalatable and that there isnt really a standard mix - some are ethanol+isoproanol, some are methanol+ethanol etc. Some have napthalene and hexanes in them etc. For my purposes I wanted to keep the solution as standardized as possible.
I did a 4:1 solvent to solute ration with 75% alcohol/25% water because its easy to get and relatively inexpensive (as everclear grain alcohol).
I plan to try a few different concentrations on my curly maple sample after I'm done carving, inlaying, and whatever else I can work on. 4:1 is what I had seen in a few places. Looks a little dark to me so I may start with a 5:1 or 6:1 on the maple and see how it looks.
The 100g bottle of ferric nitrate was about $35 shipped and at 4:1 would make a half liter of solution, more if I go to a lower ratio. Everclear was $30 for 1750ml so around $0.02 per ml (so my test batch was about $7 ferric nitrate + $1.60 alcohol/water for 100cc (a little over 3oz) of stain).

On acidity - for certain is pH is low because of the reaction of ferric nitrate + water. what that pH is and how important it would be to comensate for it I don't know but that would make an interesting side quest - to use maybe a small amount of something like sodium carbonate to bring the pH closer to 7. Pretty sure I can get that chemistry sorted out at least on paper given that we know the amount of water in the solution.

Long answer to a simple question but I enjoy the science of the whole thing.

Doc van Phil

and to answer my own wondering - using a base like a sodium carbonate will create sodium nitrate and ferric carbonate which will precipitate out as a solid - so thats a no-go.

 

[boberator]

The experiment was to make a known concentration with a solution of mainly ethanol (so that it dries fairly quickly) and some water (to raise the grain a little, not a lot.
Ferric nitrate cystals are very soluble in water and alcohols so this could have just as easily been isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol). I would not use denatured alcohol personally because of the additives to make it unpalatable and that there isnt really a standard mix - some are ethanol+isoproanol, some are methanol+ethanol etc. Some have napthalene and hexanes in them etc. For my purposes I wanted to keep the solution as standardized as possible.
I did a 4:1 solvent to solute ration with 75% alcohol/25% water because its easy to get and relatively inexpensive (as everclear grain alcohol).
I plan to try a few different concentrations on my curly maple sample after I'm done carving, inlaying, and whatever else I can work on. 4:1 is what I had seen in a few places. Looks a little dark to me so I may start with a 5:1 or 6:1 on the maple and see how it looks.
The 100g bottle of ferric nitrate was about $35 shipped and at 4:1 would make a half liter of solution, more if I go to a lower ratio. Everclear was $30 for 1750ml so around $0.02 per ml (so my test batch was about $7 ferric nitrate + $1.60 alcohol/water for 100cc (a little over 3oz) of stain).

On acidity - for certain is pH is low because of the reaction of ferric nitrate + water. what that pH is and how important it would be to comensate for it I don't know but that would make an interesting side quest - to use maybe a small amount of something like sodium carbonate to bring the pH closer to 7. Pretty sure I can get that chemistry sorted out at least on paper given that we know the amount of water in the solution.

Long answer to a simple question but I enjoy the science of the whole thing.

Doc van Phil

Nice answer and sometimes longer is better. No room for misunderstanding. When you do your test using ethanol and water please update here. It would be interesting to see the differences. I use the 99% isopropanol for the same reason in that it dries very quickly. I haven’t added water to raise grain a little but it sounds good. I usually mist with a plant mister or wipe with a damp rag to accomplish that. I will try your method on one of my maple scraps. It should work and will reduce one step in the process.

 

[Philip Chua]

Also purchasing some stuff to work on browning/bluing solutions. Have Ferric Nitrate and Ferric Chloride and I’ve purchased nitric acid and Copper III Sulfate. What’s odd is that I bought the chemicals from the Walmart website and got the nitric acid delivered with no Hazmat - which in a way I find worrisome!!!
Starting with different % of those three starter chemicals and we will see how it does. This is based on some recipes from Angier’s text. I am restoring some low collectibility hand saws and I’m gonna use some of the bluing on sections of saw blade since I’ll have them and they will take bluing.

Anyway, more chemicals to play with.

 

[boberator]

Great idea Philip! I do hope you share your preliminary results.

Nearly any chemical you could think of used to be available in small quantities at pharmacies when I was a kid. I went to the Rexall drug store and got the saltpeter for my first blackpowder and bought oxalic acid crystals to remove rust from the chrome parts of my bicycle. There was no hazmat to deal with in the old days.